and other brain defects

whats the proof

I've cited studies already

it depends on what they contain

should I tell you something funny, but worse re: vaccine side effects?

according to drugs.com, you have to go to the poison conrol centeror get medical care if you think you've got an overdose of the yellow fever vaccine
https://www.drugs.com/cdi/yellow-fever-vaccine.html
Here's some part that's harsher:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6586293/BBC-reporter-Malcolm-Brabant-reveals-raving-lunatic-taking-yellow-fever-jab.html

just wtf, how is it possible to get a hallucination after a vaccine?

if i've gotten flu shots and never gotten any side effects or the flu, how does this prove that flu shots hurt people?

hallucinations are gonna be how this specific person's immune system reacts. The cell itself is dead or weak so it can't do anything.

there is a reason why patients need to get individualized before medical treatment

just like that patients react differently to drugs, also applies to vaccines

you seem to be overcomplicating a very simple process

you just have list of what you're intolerant or allergic to, and the person(s) giving it will determine what to do. it's that simple

we've been led to believe that autism is predominantly genetic

but the twin studies they use, have not included the geneXenvironment factor

meaning genes interacting with the environment

while the studies showing GeneXenvironment factor show that autism is epigenetic, not genetic

which could explain the significant increase in autism, change in diagnosis is responsible for just a 56% increase

it went from 1 in 10k to 1 in 36 in the US

in the Netherlands, it's about 1 in 100 or 1 in 50 (possibly overestimation)

air pollution, water pollution and other environmental factors shouldn't be forgotten

not to even forget the influence from birth control pills, which contain hormones

what the hormones do to a fetus' brain is unknown

there has never been an increase in autism, only an increase in diagnosis because of a better understanding of the disorder. that was a poor correlation to make.

I've always expected this to be one argument for the increase

on the associated genes, what are the functions of those genes in the first place?

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.frontiersin.org%2Ffiles%2FArticles%2F36698%2Ffpsyt-03-00118-HTML%2Fimage_m%2Ffpsyt-03-00118-g001.jpg&f=1

focusing on environmental factors, even prenatal (depends on what the pregnant mother consumes) is important...
Why are the autism cases so low in Poland, Taiwan, China and the Netherlands?

you are somewhat correct with some disorders being caused by what a mother eats/drinks (for example, too much alcohol) but you have the complete wrong idea. immune system memory is different to consumption, it is passed on to the child for a while but it makes no difference to genes before birth. in fact they go away after a while, that's why kids fall ill often.

genes can mutate

sometimes there are environmental factors mutating the genes

oh and to autism correlation, that wouldn't be a reliable point to prove as not everyone gets diagnosed and there could just be potentially less than other countries, and population is also a factor.
although there is always an average, there is never an exact amount everywhere.

so we need a control group

when it comes to percentage, it's about how it has grown

However, isn't it preferred to have autism over dying at a young age from an easily preventable disease

it depends on which disease, just compare the US vaccine schedule to other nations' vaccine schedules

in general, they shouldn't be mandatory either, as that further escalates the whole situation

as the cumulative aluminum exposure has increased, it can be correlated with autism on multiple ways, not just through injection. Also through the brain studies

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X17308763

1 mcg/g dry wt. aluminum is pathologically benign

autism is still not nearly as bad as the multitudes of old world diseases one could contract, and, even if true, is still in extremely minute and rare cases. if nothing else, this is a matter of simply "which is worse" or even "which is riskier" to an extent

that's true

but having this diagnosis for live sounds defeatist from a philosophical standpoint

infection diseases are treatable. To some extend, vaccines that don't contain aluminum exist

if further research should be done on this, then more brain tissues of people diagnosed with ASD who died should be measured (either GF-AAS, ICP-AES or ICP-MS)

otherwise it's a matter of taking some biopts from the brain tissue, which is going to cost more money (surgeon costs)

one of the investigated inviduals had high levels of aluminum in her drinking water (chronic exposure)

furthermore, saying that kids are going to die if they don't take certain vaccines is a flawed argument to state that it's OK for children to suffer vaccine (induced) injury to prevent diseases they could've been exposed to

thimerosal is known to decrease methionine production through inhibiting the enzyme MS

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14745455
For those who think it's safe to drink it, here you can buy it:
https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/t5125?lang=en&region=US

one of the causes is disordered methylation

how is it a flawed argument when these cases of dangerous vaccines are less than a fraction of a percent

this is the exact result of blowing up a problem that barely exists

there's so many other harmful side effects to other daily facets of life like food chemicals that are FDA sanctioned yet you choose to waste your time because autism is the worst thing that can ever happen to a person

Sure it doesn't mean someone's going to flat out die without a vaccine

But its an unneeded risk that we as a fairly technologically advanced society do not wish to take for the betterment of society

Not only do unvaccinated kids pose risk on themselves but on others

even the deaths are a fraction of that percent

and even when combined with complications today

this is like specifically choosing not to seek out professional help when you break a limb, get a blood clot, need surgery, etc., and perform progressive matters yourselves because of your unnatural fear of modern medicine

Furthermore, vaccines are highly lucrative, here are some websites about the vaccine market:
https://www.transparencymarketresearch.com/global-vaccine-market.html
https://www.fiercepharma.com/special-report/top-15-pharma-companies-by-2014-revenue

i'm sure they are

it's a billion dollar industry

what's your point

do you know where those billions go to?

and my point it, that we should first stop using excess vaccines, furthermore replacing the aluminum salts with safer adjuvants (AHCC) and make the production organic.
One step between these three steps and today is to create a third party quality mark

wait, this brings a new idea: should there be a quality mark for vaccines?

okay

where do those billions of dollars go to

you seem to know

so share the answer instead of just asking us

I just give you the time to think or research

and since google is censoring information critical towards vaccination, use duckduckgo instead

interestingly, there are studies debunking the effectiveness of the flu shot:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404712/
chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4181477/pdf/irv0008-0293.pdf
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/193139
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3209321/ (lower levels of antibodies on average in vaccinated children (flu))

one way to test the effectiveness of a vaccine for individuals, is through blood titer tests

and lastly, for those who think vaccines are safe, do your own research logically using ddg as a search engine, then think again

vaccines make live

case closed

i'm sure vaccines can be improved exponentially especially as we just naturally improve over time with our scientific discoveries and findings. my only argument was that it is very ignorant and illogical to be against vaccines as a whole as opposed to the alternative of "natural" remedies and vitamins and whatever which are not potent enough for the more serious "eradicated" diseases that have been reportedly popping up again.

would you rather? eliminate the disease or eliminate it's deaths and complications?

definitely the death and complications, but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world and we have to make do with what we have. there's a difference between pushing forward ideas for improved vaccines and safer/alternative methods of administering them (for instance i remember some sort of puff of air type of vaccination) vs spreading fear-mongering propaganda which is potentially much more harmful to the kids and their peers around them who would end up unvaccinated

either getting no necessary vaccines or getting excess vaccines is a bad idea. Thoughts on chicken pox and swine flu?

in Europe, there won't be any vaccines used for chicken pox and swine flu

ask yourself, for which diseases has the US vaccines in schedule that European nations haven't for?

further more, i saw something about a rhinovirus vaccine being on its way. for those who don't know that's the common cold. imo there is no worse idea than that; do we want to go back to being Neanderthals dying of a common cold since it's been vaccinated against so we've evolved away from being able to cope with it? i'd say no. so in short: excessive vaccination against diseases that we have no hope of eradicating is a bad idea but if we can eradicate it i think we should

which two factors significantly decreased deaths and harsh complications before the introduction of vaccines?

antibiotics for bacteria infection and better care but if you can eradicate a disease entirely surely that's a better option as bacteria do develop resistances to antibiotics (ik there is some research into phage organisms iirc which has found that they can kill the bacteria and for the bacteria to become resistant to them they have to sacrifice resistance to antibiotics which is rather interesting)

What i want is evidence that vaccines dont help

you can do your own research without using biased search engines like google. As there is an algorithm that cherry-picks studies

vaccines do help and work but there are problems with them especially when they're used too much

the necessary vaccines help, these are of course for diseases like whooping cough, dipheteria, tetanus, meningococcus and pertussis

some are excessive, like the flu vaccine

the flu vaccine is excessive just so the flu is usually not as bad as if you didnt take it

yeah the flu vaccine is more of a 50/50 right? and it's better to build up the immunity and even if it is a "strain" as such that can kill you it can be treated anyway right?

really 50/50

I expected a higher probability

Well

First off

The influenza virus has multiple strains

scientist guess one of those strains each year to vaccinate

so it wouldn't really be the exact strand that defininitive year

Their guessing

So its more like 1/1000 for it to work, numbers are off though as this is only a quick explamation

the reason why im ugly is vaccines

@Jim Halpert#9969 omg is that really u??? i love the office!!1!!!1!!!

Why are people against vaccines

dunno

It's actually killing people as well....

Can we get this straight? Vaccines are helping and if ppl would just get vaccinated polio would be eradicated by now

!mute @mатериал

mатериал#5927 (249269776730292235) is now muted for '**Unspecified.**', alright? <:THUMBSUP6:403560443345371137>

@YoungPhysicist show me your data on polio vaccines

Polio rates had already declined before the vaccine was introduced it says

Do u believe vaccines cause autism

Because autism is genetic and nothing after birth could possibly give u a genetic condition

Can you show me that data?

That drop was durinf its testing they have said

That cod be hygene also increased

That also shows it dropped after the vaccine so

Also I'm talking about the graphs

biological hygiene is going well, but chemical hygiene is going bad

with chemical hygiene, it's about emission and exposure regarding toxins

and especially mitigating both

@MrLeonVWF show that information

With accompanying data plz.

vaccine for polio is necessary

but for flu is unnecessary

since each year a new flu vaccine is made, we should also look into resaerch of each recent flu shot

@Citizen Z have you read this insert of the Yellow Fever vaccine?
https://www.drugs.com/cdi/yellow-fever-vaccine.html
See overdose

I wonder, why does it say that if you think you've overdosed on the YF vaccine that you have to see a doctor or go to the poison control center?

i dont know enough to have a real opinion on this and i didnt read through everything here, but i like what you just said abt the vaccine for polio vs the flu @Lancelot

the opinion about the MMR vaccine remains still mixed. At one hand you can survive all three diseases without complications or death, but once you are unlucky to get one, it's horrible to experience something like that

moving it to 12 years age would be reasonable as mumps is more severe after puberty

since chances of complications are higher among post-puberty men

to determine whether MMR is needed to not, it should be individualized. Blood titers is one method

I cant post

It wont allow me. It didnt just disappear by magic

where do you stand on vaccines in general @Lancelot

neutral

in between, since some are necessary while others aren't necessary

especially if I compare the US vaccine schedule with the Dutch, Japanese and Islandic vaccine schedules

what makes them unnecessary

The flu isn't as necessary since it's not insanly deadly

certain criteria:
population / cases (how much % of population got disease);
severity of disease;
cases of disease divided by death rates + complications of disease ;
safer alternatives if possible;
cases of vaccine side effects & death of the disease vs cases of disease complications & death

in the US, the real issue is overvaccination

this is how aluminum (both Al(OH3) and AlPO4) travel to the brain

and this is how these adjuvants look like under an electron microscope

and here inside MFs

Note that the aluminum here is found 1 year later in the brain after intramuscular injection

Can anyone kinda give input from both sides? Since i don’t know much about this to have a solid opinion, i want to know both sides

I can give a multisided opinion

first of, understand that both sides have zealots

one that refuses vaccines. An authoritarian anti-vaccine policy is banning vaccines

the other side of zealots believes vaccines should be mandatory, which is their coercive idea

in the middle however, we should still allow vaccines, but should get a quality mark at least, sometimes a ban if necessary

you have necessary vaccines and excess vaccines, the pro-vaccine zealots push for both vaccines
examples of excess vaccines:
```flu vaccine;
swine flu;
Mexican flu (treatable with IVC);
chicken pox;
HPV (more side effects than cervical cancer cases);
Vitamin K (actually still a shot, but not vaccine)```

questionable: ```MMR```

necessary:
```DTP;
Meningococcus bacteria;
Tetanus;
Ebola (vaccine wasn't required if ebola wasn't manufactured)```

on substances, here are questionalbe ingredients:
scientific reasons:
```aluminum salts (aluminum hydroxide and aluminum phosphate, both don't dissolve in water and get captured by MFs after intramuscular injection (transport to brain, could take a year));
organic mercury (thimerosal, although some say it's a safe amount, it's unrecommended for pregnant mothers, could lower IQ when used on children);
polysorbate 80 (carcinogen and could cause sterility in females, some are allergic);
chicken protein (some are allergic)```
Ethics/moral reasons:
```Aborted fetal tissue (human): (See picture)```

look for studies on sciencedirect and researchgate, search bar suggestions:
```Aluminum toxicity```
```Aluminum neurotoxicity```
```Thimerosal methionine```
```Polysorbate 80 toxicity```

One question: do you all legitmatly think vaccines are killing more people then what the viruses they prevent do

Who said that? @mатериал

if your an anti vaxxer i think you would have to think vaccines kill more people

unless im wrong

@mатериал do me a favor. Stop talking out your ass

im not lul

Do your own research..question things. There is no problem with that. Stop spreading gossip and saying things people didnt say. All vaccines are different and should be questioned as such

people do say that

plus if you think vaccines are harmfull wouldnt u say the viruses kill less? i mean id hope thats what you think if your an anti vaxer

and i have done research

research from which websites?

cite your sources

just like I've done

Anti-Vax people are legitimate retards.

!mute @Zane

on jah#9840 (514761193496510465) is now muted for '**Unspecified.**', alright? <:THUMBSUP6:403560443345371137>

It hurts

i got vaccinated and now i cant get meningitis

but i have autism

have you any idea what went into your body except the weakened pathogen?

no, but i dont really need to

so you believe all vaccines are safe

if I would spike one vaccine with cyanide and you take it, would you still believe all vaccines are safe?

why do people hate vaccines

Because we actually get off our asses and do some actual work into researching their ingredients, effects, dates of inception, what the times looked like before vaccinations and what has transpired until now. Critical thinking stuff.
Try it and you may understand why people have an issue with them.

👌

If vaccines are bad, then why is it that when a country is developed enough to get regular vaccines throughout the population, the death rate decreases

And dont give me the autism argument. I would rather be autistic than dead

If vaccines were as bad as some people say they are, 90% of us would be dead as of now. (Tag me to reply so I dont forget)

if vaccines are bad then why are people who are unvaccinated have measles

^^

Good argument

Like who? @pigeon dude

And when?

Why wouldn't you vaccinate your child?

Alright, <@!364087995508326402> has been warned for '**Bad word usage**'.

I bet your husband left you

Who gave you the n word pass

Shut the fu ck up no you're not

Yknow there's nothing to say to that

Except

I wish they removed the 13th amendment

Alright, <@!364087995508326402> has been warned for '**Bad word usage**'.

Ha agent smith is cu cking you good

Hey guys *blink blink* mind if I join *UWU*

Why did you say *blink blink*

Are you missing a *chromosome*?

What do you expect to happen if you get measles?

<:globiegoggles:485140915149864980>

<:butthurt:507983822244151306>

https://youtu.be/mDb0ZS3vB9g

we will see

one day, there will be a fall of those who rule. They will either learn by the soft way through admitting the truth, or the hard way through various lawsuits and punishment

I have some non anti vaxxer points against vaccines

Meaning I believe vaccines appear to be mostly safe unless you’re like allergic to metal or something

And if they know that you are allergic to said substance they will inject you with a substitute for that substance that does the exact same thing.

I don’t know anything about that

But I think the way people pitch the flu vaccine as a civic duty is pedantic and unfounded.

Vaccines are proven to prevent the flu. But are they the *best* way? Studies suggest just a vitamin D supplement from walmart might be more effective

..

And while flue vaccines are usually offered free at pharmacies, vaccines in general can be expensive. When Europeans assume anyone who does not vaccinate is just a brainlet, they are showing their ignorance of healthcare and insurance costs in the US

As for herd immunity, some people like myself simply do not care if we give others the flu. If you are immunodeficient or have HIV then you have bigger problems than anti vaxxers

..

A medical question has been turned into a political dialectic where anyone who chooses not to vaccinate is assumed to believe vaccines are very harmful.

People who think mainstream science is under attack by Russian fake news are just as bad as evangelicals

My brain hurts now.

How

No idea.

iT'S ThE VaCcInEs

Ok but what is your opinion on my position

Since you’re talking to me idk

Alright, @🌀🦄🌀Tr1pp1n🌀🦄🌀 has been warned for '**Bad word usage**'.

...You cuck

Hmm

Did you say “ta*d”

I mean your stance on flu vaccines kinda pisses me off but like as long as you're not giving me ƃuᴉʞɔnɟ measles idfc.

lol

Do you get the flu vaccine every year

Nope. I usually get one that lasts like ƃuᴉʞɔnɟ 5 years.

So i go to get one every 5 years.

It's expensive asf but like i ain't tryna get poked.

I've never had the flu in my life.

Personally I haven’t had the flu since I was in highschool, and then I used it as an excuse to stay out of school. So there was never any need to get the flu shot

Yeah but that's the thing.

Just because you don't get the flu doesn't mean you don't carry it.

I am building my immune system

People should stop being hypochondriacs

Nobody likes the flu though.

Like they're not being hypochondriacs.