civil-debate

Discord ID: 538929818834698260


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2019-04-20 18:41:04 UTC

Yes, 8 inches of drop over one mile, but a curve would have it drop away exponentially or else it would be a straight line. So, a to b, 8 inches of drop, b to c, 8 inches, a to c, 32 inches. You are thinking about this in terms of slopes on a coordinate plane, that doesn't apply here. This is a curved surface we are talking about

2019-04-20 18:41:47 UTC

i tink i would be able to graph both of the formulas out to be a circle or straight line

2019-04-20 18:42:16 UTC

idk like i said im gonna have to look into this more

2019-04-20 18:42:47 UTC

It might be easier to see this in a picture rather than in words

2019-04-20 18:43:19 UTC

well first im gonna see if i can graph out both formulas to be a straight line

2019-04-20 18:43:50 UTC

Try it

2019-04-20 18:44:34 UTC

idk how to do th at

2019-04-20 18:45:37 UTC

is their a website i could graph it on

2019-04-20 18:45:59 UTC
2019-04-20 18:48:09 UTC

how do u make lines in that

2019-04-20 18:48:23 UTC

thats some sweet graph paper better than the one i found lol

2019-04-20 18:49:15 UTC

i wouldnt even know how to start graphing it even if i could make lines

2019-04-20 18:51:16 UTC

Right, this might not be very good for this purpose.
You put in equations. Like, something simple, x=8, or y=4
For a circle, that is

2019-04-20 18:52:21 UTC

(x-h)^2 + (y-k)^2 = r^2

2019-04-20 18:52:22 UTC

hang on im watching some youtube vids on this subject

2019-04-20 18:55:21 UTC

(x-h)^2 + (y-k)^2 = 3,953^2
And you get the cross section of the spherical earth since r for radius is about 3,953 miles
Idk how to do best represent the 7.98 inches per mile squared with this, probably better to just look for pictures

2019-04-20 18:55:32 UTC

i just watched one and 8 inches per mile squared didnt work for a quarter of the globe it was way off

2019-04-20 18:56:01 UTC

can u link youtube videos in here?

2019-04-20 18:57:57 UTC

I think you can

2019-04-20 19:01:22 UTC

he makes it look pretty clear the 8 inches per mile squared doesnt work

2019-04-20 19:02:33 UTC

is that guys math wrong ? is the formula for the curvature of a sphere under debate ?

2019-04-20 19:12:07 UTC

it looks like it is

2019-04-20 19:12:29 UTC

flate earthers and globe believers are both saying its wrong lol

2019-04-20 19:12:42 UTC

the 8 inches per mile squared

2019-04-20 19:13:19 UTC

ur saying it is right ?

2019-04-20 19:13:49 UTC

Was watching it. No, it isn't wrong. You can derive it from the pythagorean theorem using a tangent line, the key is drop from that line starting from one point on the globe.

2019-04-20 19:14:28 UTC

idk what to believe now i got people telling me all different things

2019-04-20 19:14:54 UTC

that video i linked his math was wrong ?

2019-04-20 19:15:28 UTC

u can debunk the debunker ? lol

2019-04-20 19:18:00 UTC

He is missing the point, he puts it on a graph as a parabola and compares it to a a graphed circle.
The distances must be linear from the starting point, basically a tangent. And the distance from that line to the surface is the drop

2019-04-20 19:19:53 UTC

but it doesnt make a circle

2019-04-20 19:20:06 UTC

it wasnt even close

2019-04-20 19:20:18 UTC

like i said im not that good at math but isnt the point to form a circle

2019-04-20 19:21:38 UTC

i still dont understand how from a to b is 8 inches and from b to c is 8 inches but a to c is 32 that doesnt make sense to me how can there be more drop than what adds up from a to be it went down 8 inches then from a to c it goes down another 8 inches

2019-04-20 19:21:47 UTC

where do the extra inches come into play

2019-04-20 19:27:18 UTC

he just tried to make a circle out of the formula after it was graphed

2019-04-20 19:27:31 UTC

he graphed it wrong ?

2019-04-20 19:33:40 UTC

It isn't applied correctly, he places a circle next to a graph to compare, when the shape isn't come out of the graph. To apply it correctly, the top y-axis at 9:45 in the video would be the straight tangent line and the drop on the x axis extending from the top line to the circle would be the drop. That graphed curve is deviating because it is plotting out distance over drop.
The extra inches come into play because the surface is curved, if it was just 8 inches per mile, it would be a straight sloped line.

2019-04-20 19:35:19 UTC

hmmm idk im more confused now than before

2019-04-20 19:35:33 UTC

I'll send you a picture

2019-04-20 19:36:35 UTC

that doesnt look right

2019-04-20 19:36:41 UTC

the lines are slanted

2019-04-20 19:37:10 UTC

should be goin straight up

2019-04-20 19:37:37 UTC

ur tryin to measure the drop from a the lnie coming up from c wouldnt be slanted like that

2019-04-20 19:38:50 UTC

that picture looks very wrong to me

2019-04-20 19:39:46 UTC

ur measuring the drop from point a the line should be vertical to the tangent not at a slant why does it slant hows that measuring drop from a

2019-04-20 19:39:56 UTC

post that picture in here

2019-04-20 19:40:18 UTC

oh u cant post pics in here

2019-04-20 19:40:23 UTC

can u post a link to that pic

2019-04-20 19:46:34 UTC

in ur pic from t to a is 8 inch drop and in reality a to b is an 8 inch drop as well but in ur pic from a to b is a 24 inch drop

2019-04-20 19:47:01 UTC

how can a to b be an 8 inch drop and a 24 inch drop lol

2019-04-20 19:47:20 UTC

do u see where im having a problem with this or no ?

2019-04-20 19:48:01 UTC

It isn't to scale, it is just to depict it in an easy to understand way. In the model, the amount they are slanted is very slight to the point of basically being negligible. Over longer distances, the drop to the surface straight down is more significantly different from the drop to surface pointing to the center, but we just continue to do it straight down

2019-04-20 19:48:33 UTC

And from a to b, it is an 8 inch drop

2019-04-20 19:48:47 UTC

they shouldnt be slanted at all why would we point to the center we are on the surface

2019-04-20 19:48:54 UTC

You have to reposition the line to a

2019-04-20 19:48:59 UTC

no in ur pic from a to b is a 24 inch drop

2019-04-20 19:49:20 UTC

ur 8 inches down then it goes 24 inches down

2019-04-20 19:49:23 UTC

Not if the line is tangent on a, then it is 8 inches from a to b

2019-04-20 19:51:05 UTC

u have a tangent line on top we are trying to figure out the drop amount as u go around the curve. the lines should be going straight up not slanted i feel

2019-04-20 19:53:01 UTC

Like I said, this isn't to scale. It should point straight down, you are right, but the 7.98 value is pretty much correct since over one mile, the earth curves a tiny fraction of a degree where straight down and slanted are very nearly the same

2019-04-20 19:53:21 UTC

u said we have to reposition the line to a but real world scenario we could have people in all spots and dont have to reposition anyone

2019-04-20 19:53:39 UTC

idk im having doubts about this 8 inches per mile squared thing

2019-04-20 19:57:00 UTC

@Citizen Z same thing, the text of that image is still wrong

2019-04-20 19:57:19 UTC

your mind must be making up that you're seeing something that isn't ther

2019-04-20 19:58:05 UTC

@AstralSentient @jeremy the exact equation for how a circle distances away from a tangent line is R[1-cos(d/R]

2019-04-20 19:58:10 UTC

But each observer in their own position has their own line. Relative to each observer, 1 mile is 8 inch drop

2019-04-20 19:58:17 UTC

that is approximately 8*d^2

2019-04-20 19:58:34 UTC

ok frolic just gave us a different equation for the curvature

2019-04-20 19:58:48 UTC

8*d^2 is an approximation, tha'ts a parabola

2019-04-20 19:59:01 UTC

it's close but not exact, exact formula is that of a circle

2019-04-20 20:00:14 UTC

it's weird taht when flat earhers say "8 inches per mile squared" they can't write the proper equation to describe what they're saying

2019-04-20 20:00:25 UTC

their words sound like h=8/d^2

2019-04-20 20:00:27 UTC

ur formula is squared too

2019-04-20 20:00:42 UTC

dont u have to have an equal amount of curve in each mile though

2019-04-20 20:00:43 UTC

but what they're trying to say is h=8d^2

2019-04-20 20:00:47 UTC

What do you mean by "close but not exact"?

2019-04-20 20:01:00 UTC

compare the two equations, do they give exactly the same result as a function of d?

2019-04-20 20:01:11 UTC

ur saying their is more curve sometimes in some places if u square it

2019-04-20 20:01:33 UTC

no i'm saying the equation that flerfers use, is a parabola, not a circle

2019-04-20 20:01:47 UTC

thus it can't be an exact measure of how much a circle curves away from a tangent line

2019-04-20 20:01:49 UTC

i dont think the formula should be squared at all

2019-04-20 20:01:59 UTC

can you write teh formula that you think is accurate?

2019-04-20 20:02:03 UTC

It works just fine for drop

2019-04-20 20:02:05 UTC

their is an equal amount of curve in a circle for each unit

2019-04-20 20:02:09 UTC

equal unit

2019-04-20 20:02:18 UTC

no there isn't, not away from a tangent line

2019-04-20 20:02:22 UTC

If it isn't squared, it is a sloped line

2019-04-20 20:02:27 UTC

as you go further away, the circle gets further away from its tangent linle

2019-04-20 20:03:03 UTC

go ahead and plot the two eqautions as a function of d, and use R=6371 km

2019-04-20 20:03:19 UTC

so if u broke a 24k mile circle into 1 mile parts their is an equal amount of curve in each mile correct?

2019-04-20 20:03:34 UTC

if you redefine your starting point each mile, yes

2019-04-20 20:03:50 UTC

what if u had a person at each mile and didnt have to redifine ur point

2019-04-20 20:03:50 UTC

but if you measure from teh same starting point, no, h would be larger for subsequent miles

2019-04-20 20:04:18 UTC

each would measure teh same amount of curvature over one mile, b/c they're effectively starting at a new point, each mile, drawing a new tangent line

2019-04-20 20:05:29 UTC

so frolic u are saying 8 iches per mile squared is correct ?

2019-04-20 20:05:51 UTC

those words don't make sense, maybe if you wrote an equation i could evaluate it. It sounds like you're saying h=8/d^2

2019-04-20 20:05:57 UTC

if so, then no, that's incorrect

2019-04-20 20:06:26 UTC

this is why its important to pay attention in math class,

2019-04-20 20:06:37 UTC

lol

2019-04-20 20:06:42 UTC

Math has value, even in this simple example, of trying to share an idea

2019-04-20 20:08:21 UTC

idk ill have to investigate more into this

2019-04-20 20:08:31 UTC

like i said im not good with math so

2019-04-20 20:08:50 UTC

here i have something favorited that shows the equation

2019-04-20 20:09:08 UTC

im looking at circle on a paper and every inch of the circle their is an equal amount of curvature

2019-04-20 20:09:13 UTC
2019-04-20 20:09:35 UTC

@jeremy draw a line tangent to the top of the circle, horizontally

2019-04-20 20:09:54 UTC

then measure teh vertical distance from the line to the circle, and different locations along the top-right quadrant of the circle

2019-04-20 20:09:59 UTC

see the pattern if follows?

2019-04-20 20:10:14 UTC

i dont need to draw tangent lines i can easily see their is an equal amount of curve in every inch of this circle

2019-04-20 20:10:18 UTC

that is h=R[1-cos(d/R)]

2019-04-20 20:10:35 UTC

dunno what you mean by 'equal amount of curvature'

2019-04-20 20:10:52 UTC

we're trying to see how much curve there is as a function of distance

2019-04-20 20:10:58 UTC

every inch i go their is an equal amount of curvature

2019-04-20 20:11:34 UTC

which way are you giong an inch, along the circle?

2019-04-20 20:11:56 UTC

an 8 cut pizza cur correctly all the crusts are the same length and have an equal amount of curvature

2019-04-20 20:12:02 UTC

cut corretly

2019-04-20 20:12:32 UTC

sure they do

2019-04-20 20:12:34 UTC

that is correct

2019-04-20 20:12:45 UTC

im not trying to bring some complicated math when i can see each section curves the same amount

2019-04-20 20:12:59 UTC

ok so how do we use this regarding the earth

2019-04-20 20:13:04 UTC

forget earth

2019-04-20 20:13:19 UTC

i saw you guys debating how the earth curve is calculated

2019-04-20 20:13:25 UTC

Why are we forgetting the earth

2019-04-20 20:13:30 UTC

ok go ahead with earth lol

2019-04-20 20:14:15 UTC

each section curves the same amount in the pizza its not getting squared

2019-04-20 20:14:18 UTC

You asked for a formula that works for the whole sphere

2019-04-20 20:14:33 UTC

i still dont think the formula involved squaring anything

2019-04-20 20:14:44 UTC

b/c that's an approximation of the proper formulat

2019-04-20 20:14:50 UTC

only valid over a certain distance

2019-04-20 20:15:02 UTC

It's just a simpler formula

2019-04-20 20:15:08 UTC

Surveyors use it

2019-04-20 20:15:53 UTC

literally i hired a surveyor to come survey my property he was a freemason so is my dentist

2019-04-20 20:16:33 UTC

im not saying its a big conspiracy lol

2019-04-20 20:16:42 UTC

just they were free masons thats all

2019-04-20 20:17:56 UTC

So do you understand the equations now

2019-04-20 20:18:03 UTC

no

2019-04-20 20:18:09 UTC

I'll summarize

2019-04-20 20:18:29 UTC

h is amount of curve, d is distance away from where you start

2019-04-20 20:18:37 UTC

h=8*d^2 is one equation

2019-04-20 20:18:49 UTC

h=R[1-cos(d/R)] is another equation

2019-04-20 20:18:53 UTC

the 2nd is more accurate

2019-04-20 20:19:00 UTC

the first is good for several hundred miles

2019-04-20 20:19:06 UTC

the first is a parabola, the 2nd is a circl

2019-04-20 20:19:09 UTC

the 2nd is more accurate

2019-04-20 20:19:22 UTC

the first is close, for small values of d

2019-04-20 20:20:28 UTC

si the second on exponential

2019-04-20 20:20:28 UTC

What is the significance of the first being parabolic?

2019-04-20 20:20:47 UTC

a parabola is not a circle, thus it can't be used to accurately represent a circle

2019-04-20 20:20:58 UTC

ok is the second formula exponential

2019-04-20 20:20:59 UTC

Why not?

2019-04-20 20:21:01 UTC

@jeremy the 2nd is a trig function, not exponential

2019-04-20 20:21:35 UTC

@AstralSentient well it is accurate 'enough' over the short distances, but it doesn't match a circle, it's a different shape

2019-04-20 20:21:54 UTC

no more than a zigzag represents a straight line

2019-04-20 20:24:18 UTC

I'm not quite sure of the context. You mean parabola on a graph with horizontal distance and vertical drop as your inputs or just that the tangent line from the curve giving h= 8d^2 makes a parabola?

2019-04-20 20:24:53 UTC

both of what you said are teh same thing

2019-04-20 20:25:30 UTC

No they aren't, one is a visual example, another is a coordinate plane graph

2019-04-20 20:25:48 UTC

Both the same

2019-04-20 20:25:59 UTC

8d^2 is a parabola

2019-04-20 20:26:10 UTC

and only matches a circle for a limited range of d

2019-04-20 20:27:29 UTC

They aren't the same. I think that is your mistake here. Assuming they are the same.
Another important thing to consider is that height and distance can be different on a sphere. Think of height relative to the center and straight down to the curve from a tangent line.

2019-04-20 20:27:52 UTC

we're only concerned with the latter height

2019-04-20 20:27:59 UTC

that's what these equations calculate

2019-04-20 20:28:08 UTC

and since they're different equations, they give slightly different shapes

2019-04-20 20:28:13 UTC

one a parabola, one a circle

2019-04-20 20:28:33 UTC

the one that is a circle is better to use when considering a spherical object like the earth

2019-04-20 20:29:00 UTC

๐Ÿค”

2019-04-20 20:29:41 UTC

Sure, on a graph, with the parabola modeling the drop on a sphere from a tangent line

2019-04-20 20:29:59 UTC

exactly

2019-04-20 20:30:14 UTC

the parabola doesn't match the circle, eventually they diverge

2019-04-20 20:30:28 UTC

uncharted what do u think

2019-04-20 20:30:43 UTC

he seems unsure also

2019-04-20 20:30:57 UTC

It matching a circle on the graph is irrelevant.

2019-04-20 20:30:57 UTC

SO is there a debate to the shape of the earth?

2019-04-20 20:31:06 UTC

b/c we have accuratly mapped it out, and that shows a sphere

2019-04-20 20:31:14 UTC

About what?

2019-04-20 20:31:18 UTC
2019-04-20 20:31:23 UTC

Flight paths use this information to go from place to place

2019-04-20 20:31:25 UTC

idk u posted the puzzling emoji

2019-04-20 20:31:41 UTC

er thinking whatever that emoji is

2019-04-20 20:31:54 UTC

Yes I know I posted that

2019-04-20 20:32:01 UTC

what u thinkin about

2019-04-20 20:32:07 UTC

I don't see what the conversation is about I don't mean to intrude

2019-04-20 20:32:17 UTC

what do u think the formula for the curvature of a circle is

2019-04-20 20:32:46 UTC

I don't care much for it if I'll be honest

2019-04-20 20:32:54 UTC

It's simply a formula

2019-04-20 20:34:01 UTC

the amount of money in ur paycheck is a formula that formula matters right lol

2019-04-20 20:34:34 UTC

So are there any flat earth believers in here?

2019-04-20 20:34:35 UTC

That's different

2019-04-20 20:35:04 UTC

There are flat earthers here Frolic

2019-04-20 20:35:07 UTC

Many actually

2019-04-20 20:35:14 UTC

yeah but i think they are both pretty important formulas

2019-04-20 20:35:15 UTC

Just change roles

2019-04-20 20:35:24 UTC

If they have too many then they are a flat earther

2019-04-20 20:36:02 UTC

Nice

2019-04-20 20:36:27 UTC

The saying is true actually, or more an observation of the human mind

2019-04-20 20:36:45 UTC

If one is to believe in one conspiracy they will believe in at least 2 more

2019-04-20 20:37:39 UTC

Eh, not really.

2019-04-20 20:37:55 UTC

if something has merit and evidence

2019-04-20 20:38:18 UTC

There are many conspiracy buffs, but accepting conspiracies doesn't make you one for it

2019-04-20 20:39:08 UTC

i thought i was gonna get somewhere today but now im even father back than before

2019-04-20 20:39:36 UTC

It is true from what I've seen personally and many others know

2019-04-20 20:39:47 UTC

Just take a look in this server or any other let alone talking to people in real life

2019-04-20 20:40:32 UTC

have any conspiracies ever turned out to be true ?

2019-04-20 20:40:34 UTC

But acknowledging one conspiracy doesn't necessarily lead to believing in more. It depends on your approach.

2019-04-20 20:40:58 UTC

@jeremy Of course, they happen all the time

2019-04-20 20:41:15 UTC

We could form a conspiracy right here

2019-04-20 20:41:27 UTC

It does happen though we know this through many people

2019-04-20 20:41:34 UTC

im trying to conspire to find the truth lol

2019-04-20 20:41:35 UTC

Again, this server as an example

2019-04-20 20:42:05 UTC

@Credibly Charted Yes, because there is a lot of conspiracy junkies here.

2019-04-20 20:42:29 UTC

Who treat it like a hobby.

2019-04-20 20:43:14 UTC

It's not just like that though, believing in something and expressing it is different things

2019-04-20 20:43:20 UTC

That's what people here do

2019-04-20 20:43:35 UTC

Others may keep it to themselves obviously

2019-04-20 20:45:03 UTC

so r u guys gonna debate something

2019-04-20 20:45:19 UTC

are u all on the same side idk whos a flat earther and whos not lol

2019-04-20 20:45:22 UTC

Depends on the topic

2019-04-20 20:45:37 UTC

well im really into this flat earth thing

2019-04-20 20:46:02 UTC

is it flat or a sphere that has severe implications on how i live my life lol

2019-04-20 20:46:55 UTC

Not really to me, it does have significant implications but ultimately I don't feel much different either way. I continue my life as is regardless.

2019-04-20 20:47:11 UTC

i mean i try to be the best person i can anyway so yeah but idk

2019-04-20 20:47:20 UTC

i feel like it would change my perception of a lot

2019-04-20 20:47:21 UTC

It is just interesting to me, that is all

2019-04-20 20:47:41 UTC

if its flat what is under us

2019-04-20 20:47:50 UTC

if its flat i have a lot of questions lol

2019-04-20 20:48:16 UTC

We couldn't really know many of that if it were to be flat

2019-04-20 20:48:35 UTC

its not flat

2019-04-20 20:48:45 UTC

lmao

2019-04-20 20:48:49 UTC

yeah i just feel like i would have a lot of questions if it was flat

2019-04-20 20:49:08 UTC

in science arent we supposed to try to prove things wrong ?

2019-04-20 20:49:14 UTC

Yes

2019-04-20 20:49:19 UTC

Falsify

2019-04-20 20:49:33 UTC

in science we try to find answers to questions

2019-04-20 20:49:49 UTC

any flat earther wanna debate?

2019-04-20 20:49:50 UTC

so we are all on the same side when it comes to flat earth we are all trying to prove the globe wrong

2019-04-20 20:49:58 UTC

But before you can do that, you must have a testable and falsifiable hypothesis to begin with

2019-04-20 20:50:40 UTC

But not everything need be falsifiable, like the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, cannot be falsified but is testable in principle

2019-04-20 20:52:04 UTC

yeah

2019-04-20 20:52:06 UTC

@jeremy Yes, always being skeptical and attempting to falsify. And if you can't falsify it, it stands

2019-04-20 20:52:40 UTC

so the globe earth stands but where is the proof i feel like if their was good enough proof their would be no flat earthers

2019-04-20 20:53:06 UTC

Same with flat earth, falsifying the globe doesn't affirm flat earth, you need to form a testable and falsifiable hypothesis for that separately

2019-04-20 20:53:21 UTC

And try to falsify that

2019-04-20 20:53:30 UTC

if their is no curve then what else can it be

2019-04-20 20:53:55 UTC

cant be flat

2019-04-20 20:53:59 UTC

If there is zero curvature, it is flat.

2019-04-20 20:54:27 UTC

well wahts the globe proof thats undeniable

2019-04-20 20:55:28 UTC

Pretty much just experiments and observations that affirm its predictions. It can't 100% be proven, but just one experiment could falsify it.

2019-04-20 20:56:17 UTC

what experiment

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