civil-debate
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Yes, 8 inches of drop over one mile, but a curve would have it drop away exponentially or else it would be a straight line. So, a to b, 8 inches of drop, b to c, 8 inches, a to c, 32 inches. You are thinking about this in terms of slopes on a coordinate plane, that doesn't apply here. This is a curved surface we are talking about
i tink i would be able to graph both of the formulas out to be a circle or straight line
idk like i said im gonna have to look into this more
It might be easier to see this in a picture rather than in words
well first im gonna see if i can graph out both formulas to be a straight line
Try it
idk how to do th at
is their a website i could graph it on
Try this:
https://www.desmos.com/calculator
how do u make lines in that
thats some sweet graph paper better than the one i found lol
i wouldnt even know how to start graphing it even if i could make lines
Right, this might not be very good for this purpose.
You put in equations. Like, something simple, x=8, or y=4
For a circle, that is
(x-h)^2 + (y-k)^2 = r^2
hang on im watching some youtube vids on this subject
(x-h)^2 + (y-k)^2 = 3,953^2
And you get the cross section of the spherical earth since r for radius is about 3,953 miles
Idk how to do best represent the 7.98 inches per mile squared with this, probably better to just look for pictures
i just watched one and 8 inches per mile squared didnt work for a quarter of the globe it was way off
can u link youtube videos in here?
I think you can
he makes it look pretty clear the 8 inches per mile squared doesnt work
is that guys math wrong ? is the formula for the curvature of a sphere under debate ?
it looks like it is
flate earthers and globe believers are both saying its wrong lol
the 8 inches per mile squared
ur saying it is right ?
Was watching it. No, it isn't wrong. You can derive it from the pythagorean theorem using a tangent line, the key is drop from that line starting from one point on the globe.
idk what to believe now i got people telling me all different things
that video i linked his math was wrong ?
u can debunk the debunker ? lol
He is missing the point, he puts it on a graph as a parabola and compares it to a a graphed circle.
The distances must be linear from the starting point, basically a tangent. And the distance from that line to the surface is the drop
but it doesnt make a circle
it wasnt even close
like i said im not that good at math but isnt the point to form a circle
i still dont understand how from a to b is 8 inches and from b to c is 8 inches but a to c is 32 that doesnt make sense to me how can there be more drop than what adds up from a to be it went down 8 inches then from a to c it goes down another 8 inches
where do the extra inches come into play
he just tried to make a circle out of the formula after it was graphed
he graphed it wrong ?
It isn't applied correctly, he places a circle next to a graph to compare, when the shape isn't come out of the graph. To apply it correctly, the top y-axis at 9:45 in the video would be the straight tangent line and the drop on the x axis extending from the top line to the circle would be the drop. That graphed curve is deviating because it is plotting out distance over drop.
The extra inches come into play because the surface is curved, if it was just 8 inches per mile, it would be a straight sloped line.
hmmm idk im more confused now than before
I'll send you a picture
that doesnt look right
the lines are slanted
should be goin straight up
ur tryin to measure the drop from a the lnie coming up from c wouldnt be slanted like that
that picture looks very wrong to me
ur measuring the drop from point a the line should be vertical to the tangent not at a slant why does it slant hows that measuring drop from a
post that picture in here
oh u cant post pics in here
can u post a link to that pic
in ur pic from t to a is 8 inch drop and in reality a to b is an 8 inch drop as well but in ur pic from a to b is a 24 inch drop
how can a to b be an 8 inch drop and a 24 inch drop lol
do u see where im having a problem with this or no ?
It isn't to scale, it is just to depict it in an easy to understand way. In the model, the amount they are slanted is very slight to the point of basically being negligible. Over longer distances, the drop to the surface straight down is more significantly different from the drop to surface pointing to the center, but we just continue to do it straight down
And from a to b, it is an 8 inch drop
they shouldnt be slanted at all why would we point to the center we are on the surface
You have to reposition the line to a
no in ur pic from a to b is a 24 inch drop
ur 8 inches down then it goes 24 inches down
Not if the line is tangent on a, then it is 8 inches from a to b
u have a tangent line on top we are trying to figure out the drop amount as u go around the curve. the lines should be going straight up not slanted i feel
Like I said, this isn't to scale. It should point straight down, you are right, but the 7.98 value is pretty much correct since over one mile, the earth curves a tiny fraction of a degree where straight down and slanted are very nearly the same
u said we have to reposition the line to a but real world scenario we could have people in all spots and dont have to reposition anyone
idk im having doubts about this 8 inches per mile squared thing
@Citizen Z same thing, the text of that image is still wrong
your mind must be making up that you're seeing something that isn't ther
@AstralSentient @jeremy the exact equation for how a circle distances away from a tangent line is R[1-cos(d/R]
But each observer in their own position has their own line. Relative to each observer, 1 mile is 8 inch drop
that is approximately 8*d^2
ok frolic just gave us a different equation for the curvature
8*d^2 is an approximation, tha'ts a parabola
it's close but not exact, exact formula is that of a circle
it's weird taht when flat earhers say "8 inches per mile squared" they can't write the proper equation to describe what they're saying
their words sound like h=8/d^2
ur formula is squared too
dont u have to have an equal amount of curve in each mile though
but what they're trying to say is h=8d^2
What do you mean by "close but not exact"?
compare the two equations, do they give exactly the same result as a function of d?
ur saying their is more curve sometimes in some places if u square it
no i'm saying the equation that flerfers use, is a parabola, not a circle
thus it can't be an exact measure of how much a circle curves away from a tangent line
i dont think the formula should be squared at all
can you write teh formula that you think is accurate?
It works just fine for drop
their is an equal amount of curve in a circle for each unit
equal unit
no there isn't, not away from a tangent line
If it isn't squared, it is a sloped line
as you go further away, the circle gets further away from its tangent linle
go ahead and plot the two eqautions as a function of d, and use R=6371 km
so if u broke a 24k mile circle into 1 mile parts their is an equal amount of curve in each mile correct?
if you redefine your starting point each mile, yes
what if u had a person at each mile and didnt have to redifine ur point
but if you measure from teh same starting point, no, h would be larger for subsequent miles
each would measure teh same amount of curvature over one mile, b/c they're effectively starting at a new point, each mile, drawing a new tangent line
so frolic u are saying 8 iches per mile squared is correct ?
those words don't make sense, maybe if you wrote an equation i could evaluate it. It sounds like you're saying h=8/d^2
if so, then no, that's incorrect
this is why its important to pay attention in math class,
lol
Math has value, even in this simple example, of trying to share an idea
idk ill have to investigate more into this
like i said im not good with math so
here i have something favorited that shows the equation
im looking at circle on a paper and every inch of the circle their is an equal amount of curvature
then measure teh vertical distance from the line to the circle, and different locations along the top-right quadrant of the circle
see the pattern if follows?
i dont need to draw tangent lines i can easily see their is an equal amount of curve in every inch of this circle
that is h=R[1-cos(d/R)]
dunno what you mean by 'equal amount of curvature'
we're trying to see how much curve there is as a function of distance
every inch i go their is an equal amount of curvature
which way are you giong an inch, along the circle?
an 8 cut pizza cur correctly all the crusts are the same length and have an equal amount of curvature
cut corretly
sure they do
that is correct
im not trying to bring some complicated math when i can see each section curves the same amount
ok so how do we use this regarding the earth
forget earth
i saw you guys debating how the earth curve is calculated
Why are we forgetting the earth
ok go ahead with earth lol
each section curves the same amount in the pizza its not getting squared
You asked for a formula that works for the whole sphere
i still dont think the formula involved squaring anything
b/c that's an approximation of the proper formulat
only valid over a certain distance
It's just a simpler formula
Surveyors use it
literally i hired a surveyor to come survey my property he was a freemason so is my dentist
im not saying its a big conspiracy lol
just they were free masons thats all
So do you understand the equations now
no
I'll summarize
h is amount of curve, d is distance away from where you start
h=8*d^2 is one equation
h=R[1-cos(d/R)] is another equation
the 2nd is more accurate
the first is good for several hundred miles
the first is a parabola, the 2nd is a circl
the 2nd is more accurate
the first is close, for small values of d
si the second on exponential
What is the significance of the first being parabolic?
a parabola is not a circle, thus it can't be used to accurately represent a circle
ok is the second formula exponential
Why not?
@AstralSentient well it is accurate 'enough' over the short distances, but it doesn't match a circle, it's a different shape
no more than a zigzag represents a straight line
I'm not quite sure of the context. You mean parabola on a graph with horizontal distance and vertical drop as your inputs or just that the tangent line from the curve giving h= 8d^2 makes a parabola?
both of what you said are teh same thing
No they aren't, one is a visual example, another is a coordinate plane graph
Both the same
8d^2 is a parabola
and only matches a circle for a limited range of d
They aren't the same. I think that is your mistake here. Assuming they are the same.
Another important thing to consider is that height and distance can be different on a sphere. Think of height relative to the center and straight down to the curve from a tangent line.
we're only concerned with the latter height
that's what these equations calculate
and since they're different equations, they give slightly different shapes
one a parabola, one a circle
the one that is a circle is better to use when considering a spherical object like the earth
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Sure, on a graph, with the parabola modeling the drop on a sphere from a tangent line
exactly
the parabola doesn't match the circle, eventually they diverge
uncharted what do u think
he seems unsure also
It matching a circle on the graph is irrelevant.
SO is there a debate to the shape of the earth?
b/c we have accuratly mapped it out, and that shows a sphere
About what?
Flight paths use this information to go from place to place
idk u posted the puzzling emoji
er thinking whatever that emoji is
Yes I know I posted that
what u thinkin about
I don't see what the conversation is about I don't mean to intrude
what do u think the formula for the curvature of a circle is
I don't care much for it if I'll be honest
It's simply a formula
the amount of money in ur paycheck is a formula that formula matters right lol
So are there any flat earth believers in here?
That's different
There are flat earthers here Frolic
Many actually
yeah but i think they are both pretty important formulas
Just change roles
If they have too many then they are a flat earther
Nice
The saying is true actually, or more an observation of the human mind
If one is to believe in one conspiracy they will believe in at least 2 more
Eh, not really.
if something has merit and evidence
There are many conspiracy buffs, but accepting conspiracies doesn't make you one for it
i thought i was gonna get somewhere today but now im even father back than before
It is true from what I've seen personally and many others know
Just take a look in this server or any other let alone talking to people in real life
have any conspiracies ever turned out to be true ?
But acknowledging one conspiracy doesn't necessarily lead to believing in more. It depends on your approach.
@jeremy Of course, they happen all the time
We could form a conspiracy right here
It does happen though we know this through many people
im trying to conspire to find the truth lol
Again, this server as an example
@Credibly Charted Yes, because there is a lot of conspiracy junkies here.
Who treat it like a hobby.
It's not just like that though, believing in something and expressing it is different things
That's what people here do
Others may keep it to themselves obviously
so r u guys gonna debate something
are u all on the same side idk whos a flat earther and whos not lol
Depends on the topic
well im really into this flat earth thing
is it flat or a sphere that has severe implications on how i live my life lol
Not really to me, it does have significant implications but ultimately I don't feel much different either way. I continue my life as is regardless.
i mean i try to be the best person i can anyway so yeah but idk
i feel like it would change my perception of a lot
It is just interesting to me, that is all
if its flat what is under us
if its flat i have a lot of questions lol
We couldn't really know many of that if it were to be flat
its not flat
lmao
yeah i just feel like i would have a lot of questions if it was flat
in science arent we supposed to try to prove things wrong ?
Yes
Falsify
in science we try to find answers to questions
any flat earther wanna debate?
so we are all on the same side when it comes to flat earth we are all trying to prove the globe wrong
But before you can do that, you must have a testable and falsifiable hypothesis to begin with
But not everything need be falsifiable, like the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, cannot be falsified but is testable in principle
yeah
@jeremy Yes, always being skeptical and attempting to falsify. And if you can't falsify it, it stands
so the globe earth stands but where is the proof i feel like if their was good enough proof their would be no flat earthers
Same with flat earth, falsifying the globe doesn't affirm flat earth, you need to form a testable and falsifiable hypothesis for that separately
And try to falsify that
if their is no curve then what else can it be
cant be flat
If there is zero curvature, it is flat.
well wahts the globe proof thats undeniable
Pretty much just experiments and observations that affirm its predictions. It can't 100% be proven, but just one experiment could falsify it.
what experiment
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