and this is how we get to "biological sex is a social construct"

if gender becomes volatile and not useful it will be because people are using it for that purpose

meaning its not useless

if enough SJW use racism as "prejudice+power" should we assume the definition changed too?

they will change it against your will if you let them

@.B good news, they now have a name for prejudice against people of the same power level, its apparently called colorism

ik

xD

and colorism is exactly what the initial racism was

which is ironic

which is why i think its best just to just give gender a better definition or no definition at all

and invalidates their redifinition of racism

gotta love when they finally realized there are black people who are racist against black people, and had to make a new word because they were like "oh yeah... this is a thing"

or, you say gender = sex

and it's done

so does that mean black on black crime is now colorism?

wont hold up in the long run

it holded up until today

gender doesent mean sex, because boats have a gender but not a sex

what

boats?

boats are female

wut?

that is personification

most things in the spanish language have genders

so?

ahh

not all languages have gendered nouns

@Arch-Fiend but if gender =/= sex, then a boat does not have a gender, it has a sex

gender doesent equel sex

the boat has no sexual characteristics, sorry

because there is only male gender, female gender, and neutral gendered words in languages

you can't have it both ways

thats because gender doesent discribe sexual characteristics

so gender could only be binary if that is the point you tried to make

well no physical ones

gender only defines social and psychological sexual characteristics

which would mean it defines nothing

boats don't have any

which is why i dont like the word

boats are called she

do something about it

btw, afaik boat is male in spanish

barco

thats fine, now its male

or bote

la lancha is female

doesent make gender any more useful a way to define sex

now that inanimate objects have genders

you basically destroyed your own argument though, genders in languages are binary

i never said genders wernt binary

there's male, female and neutral

i said i dont care about them

and that it doesent define sex

you were arguing "gender =/= sex"

sex doesent define bianary, sex that we know of has a bianary

you lost me, idk what you meant

what you said before the last thing i said only makes sense with the thing you said before that if your defining bianary as sex

language has masculine, feminine, and neutral. If you want to call that arbitrary distinctions gender, then fine. But that is a random ass thing to call gender

also probably not appropriate because i believe it already has a name

continuing with this thread of discussion.. so should languages invent 35 new ways to gender nouns?

oh, it already has a name, grammatical gender, so i guess you can just call that gender

well, sjw's would like that

and good fucking luck to them, i'd like to see them try it

would be amusing to see them try

i havent called any arbitrary disstinction gender, at first i started with gender not existing, then i moved forward with the idea that if you want gender to exist then gender must define something different than sex because things without sex have gender, if you created a definition that made sense in that context for gender then gender would be social and psychological sexual characteristics

gender always existed as another synonim to sex

we didn't agree on that?

gender = sex, just as there are many other words that mean the same as other words

its a piss poor definition for sex if it doesent actually work as a definition for sex

you can take any existing thing that says gender and you could replace it with sex

as that is how it was used

you cant say "this word means this word but only sometimes"

you can say those applications of the word sex seem silly or random, and i would agree

that doesn't change the fact that is how it was used

Besides, why not?

there is no "but only sometimes"

what sex is a boat?

any application of sex and gender is/was interchangeable

yes

boat is an it

boat is a she, a female pronoun

please show me the dick or boobs on a boat

not in all languages

how do boats fuck?

feminine article

show me what about the boat makes it feminine?

rule34 applies

you'd have ask the people who made up language

not a god damn thing about a boat makes it feminine, its almost like gender isint the same god damn thing as sex

if you want a guess on boat in particular, it was because the sailors on it build the same kind of connection with it as they did with their wives, so the boat became a sort of replacement for the females of their lives, given that it used to be all men and nothing but the men.

the moment sex discribed sexual characteristics or an action sex no longer means gender

they personified the boat

here, have a pic of Titanic

humans are weird

i like the starberd side on that chick

funny stuff aside

some lanmguages have gendered words

others don't

what's your point on the boats?

so they dont have sexed words

so gender doesent mean sex

http://allthingslinguistic.com/post/25113486541/grammatical-gender-versus-natural-gender

they have gendered words, but only male, female and neutral

so they dont have sexed words

gendered words are "sexed" words

*i made mistakes ask my gf for linguistics questions, she is now flooding my pms with links because she has a linguistics fetish*

<:40keks:337002418023694336>

because sex discribes physical characteristics of living things that reproduce sexually

not necessarily

i dont understand why you people cant understand how sex does not mean gender

if a man has no dick, he is still a man

dick isint the only sexual characteristic of a human

hmm... seems gender doesn't even make sense for that

or even any creature that reproduces sexually

"Basque has two genders, based on animacy, the Oluganda of Uganda use ten grammatical noun classes (which is by far a better term for grammatical gender), one which is for liquids and one which is for pejoratives and Zwahili employs 18 different noun classes."

actually, i guess in SJW land, liquid is a gender so....

😂

So, mayonnaise?

rule34 applies

id like to offer a noval idea

sex =/= gender

i got it, SJWs spent way too much time on tumblr, everything explained

i know i know, it seems strange

but science has answers

lol

plz continue

you have my attention

science has no control over language so does it really answer this question? given that science has a fixed definition for sex and language *used* to use gender as the same thing.

well you see, sex discribes a biological property, or perhaps even a physical property of creatures whom can reproduce highly similar life as themselves together. gender can be applied to anything as a discription

So, the next time I fill out a job application, I can complain that there is no "Doesn't Exist" option next to gender?

because gender isint controled by a scientific definition

@JadenFrostwolf i think that is called "other"

Point.

personification is a thing, you can also give emotions to innanimate objects, that doesn't mean those are "real"

everyone should just fill out "other" and answer yes if it asks for sex.

i argue that we shouldent call 2 things the same when they arnt

demonstatably arnt

so, what's your gender?

my gender is tl;dr

So, what do you call "a wicked or cruel person" then?

hillery clinton?

it is only demonstrably not the same if you CHANGE the original definition of gender.

actualy the origenal definition of gender probably hasent changed

as you still find this in most dictionaries if you look up the definition of gender: "the state of being male or female"

Well, a few words describe such a person: villain, brute, fiend, sadist...

its more that the definition of sex has changed

nope

nigga

sex and gender **used** to be the same

idk how anyone can deny that

then science defined one

the argument is that SJWs, just like with racism, have changed it for no reason

NIGGA

the chromosome was discovered only 100 years ago

gender/sex always existed

trust me, people could see the dicks

and having boobs or a vagina has, for the time before that, forced you into either male or female

damn streight, unfortunately sex means something different now

and deviants usually didn't survive for long, people didn't care

sex cant apply to everything gender applys to

nope, still means "are you programmed to have boobs or a dick"

because i cant have anal gender with your mom and a boat doesetn have a sex

nigga, even merriam-webster says : "the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex"

personification isn't a thing in all languages, that boat argument is really weak

specially given that gender is binary in most languages

everyone on earth should enjoin some explosive injected lead poisoning.

i think we can all agree

i recall someone earlier saying if you wanted a definition of gender, then define it as social or psychological sexual characteristics

wonder who the fuck that was

i guess they will remain some unknown genius

you did

I quoted you last time on that

nah cant be, grenade said evenmerriam-webster disagrees with me

followed by asking what categories would you define

that were concrete

the argument has kinda changed from "what is your definition" which you didn't really for reasons you made clear to "why should it still mean sex"

>why should it still mean sex
because it always did 😏

we are back at the start. What would you define "gender" that would be useful for society?

although that argument has boiled down to "it used to mean the same thing, SJWs tried to change it to something we have logically followed through to really be meaningless, so therefore it should retain its previous meaning over no meaning"

> why shouldent it mean sex
because i gendered your mom so hard she told me to stop and have sex with her

Have some coke first.

to be fair, if we go by science definition, things don't have sex, they have intercourse

you're not that good with language are you?

so if gender means biological sex, it is not a verb.

it also doesent mean sex

in any connotation

I'm getting vibes of the whole "what is white?" debates earlier with Sargon...

>gender means biological sex, it is not a verb
I don't think this can be said more simply than this

there are no boats with physical sexual traits there is no way for me to have gender with your mom

boats have no gender in chinese

So because coke exists, that means coke can't mean coke at the same time?

thats because gender is arbitrary

no it isn't z.z

this is back to Belial earlier argument, gender should still mean sex, the noun definition of sex, not the verb one.

gendered nouns it's not the same as biological sex

i mean theres so much overwelming evidence that it is that denying it it honestly awesome at this point but if you cant be convenced then ignorence is bliss

>so much overwelming evidence
point to it

sauce plz

you can't say gender is arbitrary because you say boats are female

no i wont, because if your asking for it now it means you havent listened to me this entire time and you arnt worth any more of it

that isn't even convincing

From my experience, when there really is "so much evidence" of something, then it doesn't need to be pointed out that there is so much evidence of it.

that sounds like the usual "educate yourself because I have no arguments"

In conversations like this, at least.

there is so much evidence that gender was always the same as sex for more than 2000 years, that I could play the same _theres so much overwelming evidence_

Wat

@Arch-Fiend Grammatical Gender is so different from normal gender that they felt the need to specify it being different with the word grammatical. And as with the article noted earlier, would make more sense to call noun classes, not gender. So there goes your boat argument because boat being called she, or a feminine article, is either personification or noun class, not referencing anything related to sex or gender for that matter aside from names applied to it for teaching reasons. Gender used to be used to specify the noun definition of sex, a useful way to differentiate from the verbal definition. The only other definitions thrown around lead to gender being meaningless. Since it used to have a meaning, then it makes little sense to strip it of meaning for arbitrary reasons. Doing so just leads to two sides, using the same word, to argue two unrelated points.

Basically, Because we gendered inanimate objects and inanimate objects don't have sex we shouldn't gender humans based on sex?

Tf is that reasoning

@ping not correct

Not at you

its not we shouldn't gender humans, its that gender is not the same as sex, and shouldn't be used for it

i.e. it doesn't mean male or female

Tbh I don't care what words people use

while you shouldn't, you also should. because otherwise you can't talk to people

If it's conveying the same thing either way I don't see the point

i'm just not using any of that xim/xer/attack helicopter nonsense.

Right

i'll use attack helicopter

Maybe that one.

Mayonnaise

I use the apache thing

because if i can be anything i want, i might as well be something epic

it destroys them

i should say Hind attack chopper

they can't deny my "gender" by their rules

Reminds me of the guy that changed his pronouns to "his majesty."

side note, second autocomplete on google for "hind attack helicopter" is "hind attack helicopter for sale"

when they say "white privilege" you can also say you don't identify as white

"i'm trans black"

"what up nigga?"

also throw in otherkin status

If I'm 1/8'th native american, can I say that I'm mixed?

just to be safe

that's too edgy

only if you're under 20

@JadenFrostwolf you can say whatever you want

they can't deny it

Sweet.

gotta find one of those allies so you can call them "cis male scum" for denying your identity

you know they are dumb, when their world crumbles by their own rules

its fun

but this is what happens when you hold contradictory ideas

>gender is arbitrary

>gender pay gap

>need 50/50 female/male ratio
>gender isn't binary

>racism is prejudice+power
>uhhr dur _colorism_