Regardless of any possible improvements that may be introduced

OR

A group of people have a face while the government doesn't; if you know what I mean

Stay caused it worked before or change cause it might be for the better

Being breaking down any boundaries that are, regardless of their protection or importance and stability they may provide

Everything is relevant and therefore everyone has equal power

Those are the two polar opposites, right?

yeah pretty much

So where is the common ground in these two

Assuming horse shoe theory

preserving certain values that help benefit or don't harm while getting rid of values that don't benefit and may harm

Wanting to exist and retain existence

the problem is some values may seem harmful or inane but do more than that is apparent

and some values can be taken too far and become abusive

Well, there's also trying to change stuff without fully understanding what you're even trying to change. A perfect example of this is "the wage gap", wherein women make less money than men. It's easy to look at this and go "oh well that isn't right, we need to fix this."
The problem comes into play when no one bothers asking or looking into *why* this is the case.

Still. Maybe cause it moved ftom change since you hate what it was before to,change cause it benefits me or cause it makes me feel good.

Yeah that's mostly moral arbiting, jaden

not critisizing anyone, trying to follow this conversation, but i really dont know what anyone is talking about. like i know what your saying but im not sure what it relates to, and looking up through the chat didint help me figure out

You can make a group of people feel like they're doing what is morally good by supporting you. That's the democrats platform these days

Probably what its always been for all I know

It's the strong, supportive patriarchal figure and the protective, quixotic matriarchal figure

I think it's just a general conversation about ideas, I'm not sure what the precise topic of discussion is. lol

mostly discussing what consists of progressivism i guess

You need both to be in some sort of balance

mk

yeah it's not "out with the old, in with the new" it's "out with the structurally unsound, in with the structurally sound/beneficial"

a problem the current meme left struggle with

depends on who's using the word progressive

that follows its origenal context, where the term progressive developted during the monopoly and trust busting era of usa politics in the late 1800's

political definitions are such a pain in the ass

If you'd imagine the conservative and progressive as a male and female character trying to sustain their relationship/household but also their own dreams

progressivism is more of a direction than a set idea. In 100 years what will be progressive will be different from now or 100 years before

Same as conservative

It's relevant to the structure of society

Fundamentalists are like what came before that

Going back to the absolute bedrock of the society

i think conservitism can actually replace progressivism with the definition of "out with the less structurally sound/in with the more structurally sound" but from a different perspective "keep the more structurally sound/let go of the less structurally sound"

This is why the exact word used is absolutely integral. People will see the word and have to know what the idea is with it or make assumptions about what it is.

That's why I usually avoid the established terms

Because of their connotations, which aren't always descriptive of the original meaning

Yeah while progressivism is a moving word conservitism can be seen as a standing word if you look at them like that

It also makes for much nicer conversation

Conservatism is a stranding word

Fundamentalist would be the standing word

Also why I don't like the "left/right" divide. Makes it way too easy to discredit someone elses ideas simply because they use a word they identify with.

There's also a different meaning here in Europe

left/right

Yeah, like being on the right or left is supposed to be an inherently bad thing? It makes no sense. lol

From what I've heard other American pallerinos

I heard my mom say something like "isn't he a republican though?" or some shit like that. Like why does it matter which letter he has next to his name if he has good ideas.

The two party system was a dumb idea to reinforce, mang

Right - more control to private sector

Left - more control to governments

In theory.

In practice, they're both bought out by busniesses and monied interests, so it's moot.

While the left around the Iraq war was completely against the government. These ideas shift

Yeah

That's the horseshoe theory

They end up in the same place

it's like if the horseshoe was made of mercury

You need a constant flux

You can't stay in the middle

I thought the horseshoe theory was that the extremes of the right and left, in terms of ideology, is that they end up in the same place?

Well, yeah

Their extremes

I was talking purely about money in politics.

it's that they're fundamentally the same

It's all nepotism

Because of our lame social nature

perceive it as you will

There's a difference, though

One comes from the production of goods/services

The other comes from the escalation of power of those manufacturers

I think arguing definitions is a good way to miss the point though

It's all cyclical, because products and ideas go obsolete

Yeah, good point. It's a superficial issue at best

Just avoid using the established and dusty/stagnant political monikers and explain your fundamental issues like you would to a four year old

Minus the somewhat denigrating tone of voice

People don't seem to appreciate that

yeah pretty much lol. Just saying "oh I'm a libertarian" leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Just say what you believe in pertaining to the relevant issue

Remember Trump's run in the 2000s?

nope

He withdrew from the race

Because of infighting of his party "The Reform Party"

He expressed his concerns by referring to David Duke, Pat Buchanan, and Lenora Fulani as a Klansman, a Neo-Nazi, and a Communist, respectively.

"Drrumff **never** even disavowed David Duke! What a racist."

Lol he mentored HRC

The human rights commission?

I'm a europoor, please be patient

Hillary rodham clinton

David duke

OH, right

Thwres a meme of him kissing her, and a pic next to it of him with his klans garb

It's alright, though.

Hillary puts hot sauce on **everything**

And always carries some in her handbag.

Well. I dont even understand what she meant to convey with that.

I,mean at least Trump enjoys things like we all want to, like lol, a burger in japan that was amazing actually.

something about like mexicans eat spicy food or whatever lol

it was so weird