debate

Discord ID: 463068752725016579


34,246 total messages. Viewing 250 per page.
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2018-07-07 23:14:49 UTC

how do you violate it in yoru typical life then?

2018-07-07 23:14:53 UTC

tell me

2018-07-07 23:15:06 UTC

I regularly hold down the neighbor kids and fart all over them.

2018-07-07 23:15:20 UTC

my face violates the NAP

2018-07-07 23:15:24 UTC

thats how you get pink eye

2018-07-07 23:15:31 UTC

RIGHT .. see youre not even attempting to be serious now cuz no good arguments

2018-07-07 23:15:41 UTC

they rather, oh well one day they may fart on you

2018-07-07 23:15:49 UTC

I'm making jokes because they're right there.

2018-07-07 23:15:52 UTC

somebody... anybody.... tell me how they need to violate the NAP in their every day life

2018-07-07 23:15:55 UTC

well i'm not arguing against a NAP

2018-07-07 23:16:05 UTC

waiting

2018-07-07 23:16:28 UTC

The thing is, you're not debating what we're discussing on it's merits.

2018-07-07 23:16:32 UTC

in fact i'm not sure what NAP we're talking about, Non Aggression Pact? or the nice bed kind?

2018-07-07 23:16:38 UTC

You're pushing the debate a different direction.

2018-07-07 23:16:50 UTC

Do you teach the NAP.... its funny im sure ive come across it, ive read Loki and Mill, but i mean yeah. pacificsm in the face of non adversary sure

2018-07-07 23:16:51 UTC

Non-aggression principle

2018-07-07 23:17:08 UTC

but what happens when the bully comes

2018-07-07 23:17:14 UTC

my avatar is just a yin yang of koi fish, and the colors are cool. the Gadsden flag is black and yellow too... same with the State of Jefferson movement

2018-07-07 23:17:16 UTC

do you stand your ground or retreat?

2018-07-07 23:17:32 UTC

where is the line in the sand

2018-07-07 23:17:39 UTC

Gadsden Flag is yellow and green.

2018-07-07 23:17:45 UTC

with text and outlines.

2018-07-07 23:18:35 UTC

Also, it predates the Ancap flag, whose principles you are arguing.

2018-07-07 23:18:38 UTC

NAP only works if its enforced

In an ancap society, there is no sovereignty of force, so anyone strong enough can overthrow another

And the biggest number are the collective with a strong warlord leader

2018-07-07 23:18:38 UTC

no, you guys just randomly started stawman attacking me.... AS IF YOU ALL don't live by the NAP either

2018-07-07 23:18:46 UTC

^ ^ ^ what Wol said.

2018-07-07 23:18:53 UTC

I live by NAP, cuz of law

2018-07-07 23:19:10 UTC

how do you enforce the nap.... isn't that the irony of it?

2018-07-07 23:19:14 UTC

^ ^ ^ ^

2018-07-07 23:19:15 UTC

BINGO

2018-07-07 23:19:30 UTC

And THAT is what the state exists for

2018-07-07 23:19:31 UTC

@citizen NAP isnt pacifism.... it include self-defense as legit form of violence

2018-07-07 23:19:34 UTC

Nothing more, nothing less.

2018-07-07 23:19:42 UTC

you enforce the NAP through a social agreement, solidified by giving the government power to maintain order

And having that govrnment be accountable to the people it maintains

2018-07-07 23:20:05 UTC

the NAP includes stand-your-ground

2018-07-07 23:20:08 UTC

The government protects people in case of violation
And outside that, people agree not to violate each others rights

2018-07-07 23:20:13 UTC

The only tweaks our system needed along the way were, funny enough, to recognize all people as people.

2018-07-07 23:20:20 UTC

like is it a nirvanic concept where death is accepted due to the nature of reincarnation so if you die then that is the predestined reality that you were supposed to die in that multiverse plane?

2018-07-07 23:20:40 UTC

sorry i am not smart so you get runons... you're gonna get hop ons

2018-07-07 23:20:45 UTC

I cam from behind you and put gun to your head, violating the NAP. What do you do ? You can do nothing and there is no one else that can help you because I have no violeted NAP against them.. or ?

2018-07-07 23:20:51 UTC

An-cap principles are as utopian as marxism.

2018-07-07 23:21:01 UTC

They depend on people doing what they're supposed to.

2018-07-07 23:21:23 UTC

@Dr.Wol @RyeNorth you have misconceptions of the reality of human nature.... if somone violates the NAP... and it's illegal to violate the NAP..... they are fair game!

2018-07-07 23:21:37 UTC

Yes, and who is going to violate it? someone who knows they'll win

2018-07-07 23:21:42 UTC

and stomp out those who disagree

2018-07-07 23:21:42 UTC

Fair game, how?

2018-07-07 23:21:43 UTC

i am anti victim... i think violence should be more controlled and understood... i mean we WERE savages, so we need to get our energy out..... or encourage exercise? everyone needs a gym or a park to run around in and get that energy out.

2018-07-07 23:21:53 UTC

Its illegal to annex other countries, yet the Soviets did it

2018-07-07 23:22:10 UTC

Who determines the hard lines of the NAP, and who violates it?

2018-07-07 23:22:29 UTC

Or is it to be determined in the moment?

2018-07-07 23:22:59 UTC

The funny thing is

Both Ancap and Marxism, get crushed by the opposing side

Ancaps are too separated and individual, and will be destroyed by the masses guided by a warlord-like figure

And Marxists are too collectivised, so that no one is allowed to rule or be smart, so the individuals can play the system and win/gain control

2018-07-07 23:23:03 UTC

Is justice supposed to come as swiftly as the judge of the situation can draw his gun?

2018-07-07 23:23:30 UTC

Will all violations of the NAP be met with the same level of justice, regardless of severity?

2018-07-07 23:24:05 UTC

The nap is a great ideal for oneself though. i do not believe it could be enforced, thats not very NAP-ien. i do think we need more nuclear family homes, we need to encourage open honest communication with people who are close to you. Raise your kids, love your family, build your community.

2018-07-07 23:24:18 UTC

everybody likes to take a nap too.... so there's that.

2018-07-07 23:24:21 UTC

you guys keep trying to paint me as an ancap ... smh.... iono who youre arguing with

2018-07-07 23:24:30 UTC

wth man, we're not trying to paint you

2018-07-07 23:24:36 UTC

we're debating, and you ahve taken the ancap side

2018-07-07 23:24:39 UTC

no one is doing that.. you started arguing about NAP

2018-07-07 23:24:41 UTC

in this debate

2018-07-07 23:24:44 UTC

we debating NAP

2018-07-07 23:24:58 UTC

``` if somone violates the NAP... and it's illegal to violate the NAP..... they are fair game!``` - Poptarts, 7/7/2018

2018-07-07 23:25:00 UTC

so its okay do violate the NAP then or what?

2018-07-07 23:25:10 UTC

in what circumstances?

2018-07-07 23:25:10 UTC

My thing said id vote for rand paul..... maybe i would?

2018-07-07 23:25:10 UTC

I did ask you a question on this

2018-07-07 23:25:14 UTC

If you can do it and no one stops you, you can violate the NAP

2018-07-07 23:25:34 UTC

a contract or law, is only as powerful as the party that enforces it

2018-07-07 23:25:58 UTC

sure, but that doesnt make it a-okay is the point... they become a target of legit retaliation

2018-07-07 23:26:13 UTC

and if they're strong enough to not be retaliated against?

2018-07-07 23:26:20 UTC

you're gonna wave your finger and say "You can't do that" at them?

2018-07-07 23:26:50 UTC

Life depends on how you look at it... Did we evolve to the peak of animal capability to where we stepped out of the food chain and have created memes like mad. or we are fallen from the grace of god and will continue to deteriorate into the savagery that is surrounding us. Be a civil savage i say.

2018-07-07 23:27:06 UTC

they wont be bcuz there will always be partnerships of other security firms who are ballsy enough to attack them and apprioriate their resources because they violated the law if the law was the NAP as a baseline

2018-07-07 23:27:42 UTC

So Oligarchy?

2018-07-07 23:27:56 UTC

im just talking about all your personal lives... its so ironic that you all still live by it in your every days lives if youre decent human beings who dont steal and mug other ppl, etc

2018-07-07 23:28:03 UTC

a partnership, sounds like a coalition of parties, with an army

thats noy very Ancap now is it? it almost sounds like a government

2018-07-07 23:28:12 UTC

if youre not a rapist, etc. guess what... you follow the NAP

2018-07-07 23:28:16 UTC

We've already acknowledged that we follow the NAP

2018-07-07 23:28:27 UTC

but sometimes we like to wrastle

2018-07-07 23:28:28 UTC

We're questioning where you were going with that.

2018-07-07 23:28:42 UTC

okay, but thats consentual LOL let's wrastle!

2018-07-07 23:28:53 UTC

so doesnt violate the NAP just like boxing matches

2018-07-07 23:29:08 UTC

the NAP isnt pacifism ... its just common sense

2018-07-07 23:29:09 UTC

right. we need to empower men and turn them into the gladiators of past

2018-07-07 23:29:14 UTC

guy i'd have killed several people if the law said i could, i follow the NAP cuz its enforced

2018-07-07 23:29:30 UTC

Alright, poptarts, lets break this down then.

2018-07-07 23:29:37 UTC

How do you see the NAP being enforced?

2018-07-07 23:30:38 UTC

itd be enforced virtually similar to the same way we do it now by going after perpetrators

2018-07-07 23:30:52 UTC

By who?

2018-07-07 23:31:04 UTC

Well to me, the NAP is enforced through societal agreement. we raise our children to not hurt others and to tell the truth and yada yada yada. is it perfect? lol what is perfect? we'd have to go back to that nirvana shit i said earlier if you can comprehend how perfect this all is.

2018-07-07 23:31:18 UTC

the MAJORITY of security firms are privatized in the first place.... only a small minority of security is police, etc

2018-07-07 23:31:28 UTC

Not what I asked.

2018-07-07 23:31:59 UTC

its not enforced, specifically. but its the approach of cultural norms through law enforcement... or something. be a nice person. or not, im not your parent.

2018-07-07 23:32:17 UTC

nobody said it was perfect..... also it will not prevent ppl from violating it either... all it would do it legitimize recoursive action againts those who violate it

2018-07-07 23:32:17 UTC

you can hire security but it doesn't have authority to generally enforce the NAP is what you are getting at Rye ?

2018-07-07 23:32:31 UTC

it is enforced Citizen, the government promises retribution if your NAP is violated

2018-07-07 23:32:49 UTC

Well that is neat to know! is that in every state?

2018-07-07 23:33:16 UTC

oh wait.... lol i get it

2018-07-07 23:33:25 UTC

Its in every country that has a sovereign government that utilises law enforcement that protects you, if thats what you mean πŸ˜›

2018-07-07 23:33:39 UTC

its more of a "negative" rights think too... traditional police would not have the right to enforece victimless crimes laws (thus violating the NAP)

2018-07-07 23:33:42 UTC

yeah.... like i said earlier... i am not smart

2018-07-07 23:33:58 UTC

thats okay, i tried to help out by explaining better :p

2018-07-07 23:33:58 UTC

but its like the dunning krueger.... i know how stupid i am so im a little smart?

2018-07-07 23:34:37 UTC

knowing your limits is insight

definitions of smart wages on the average of humanity, so as long as you're smarter than 3,5 billion humans, you're atleast a little smart πŸ˜„

2018-07-07 23:34:52 UTC

But the police would be enforcing the NAP.

2018-07-07 23:35:25 UTC

yes, they could do that, whats the problem with that?

2018-07-07 23:35:32 UTC

they could enforce it and not violate it themselves

2018-07-07 23:35:39 UTC

there isn't a problem with that

2018-07-07 23:35:42 UTC

There's not

2018-07-07 23:35:45 UTC

no victimless crimes laws

2018-07-07 23:35:49 UTC

oh okay LOL

2018-07-07 23:35:51 UTC

well gg

2018-07-07 23:35:53 UTC

well then, thoughts on First Amendment auditors going into public spaces and auditing authorities. if the cops feel they are being harassed, does that violate the cops right. or are they screwed due to their oath.

2018-07-07 23:35:54 UTC

I'm probing your ideology to better understand it.

2018-07-07 23:36:06 UTC

an an NAP way.

2018-07-07 23:36:17 UTC

πŸ˜›

2018-07-07 23:36:25 UTC

whats a victimless crime?

2018-07-07 23:36:40 UTC

Most likely Drug use, for one.

2018-07-07 23:36:41 UTC

like taking drugs

2018-07-07 23:36:44 UTC

Prostitution.

2018-07-07 23:36:45 UTC

btw the way i see it, Ancaps just want smaller countries, where they themselves think they can be king

Cuz an Ancap needs security to protect his property
Just like a government is protecting its sovereignty

2018-07-07 23:37:00 UTC

they just wanna get rid of the branch above them so they can make the laws

2018-07-07 23:37:16 UTC

if its in their charter for public auditing, they must be obligated to provided it.... it all boils down to current contracting laws anyways which are aleady in place

2018-07-07 23:37:21 UTC

one man states basically

2018-07-07 23:37:26 UTC

Well, the smallest possible country is yourself + your weapons

2018-07-07 23:37:37 UTC

The best bit is that there are no taxes to yourself that you have to pay

2018-07-07 23:37:46 UTC

true, but theres no welfare there either 😦

2018-07-07 23:37:47 UTC

drugs should be regulated, but legal. same with hookin'... if we have a system, then it be easier to monitor and cut back on illegal and objectively immoral actions? but then we'd have to conform to a statehood that separates us from individuality.

2018-07-07 23:37:58 UTC

and no closed borders πŸ˜„

2018-07-07 23:38:07 UTC

Frankly, I'm with you on the drugs to an extent

2018-07-07 23:38:16 UTC

(and not with you on drugs. Don't get me wrong)

2018-07-07 23:38:23 UTC

I think some drugs should be regulated, but there are others that are dangerous enough that they should be illegal. Most of those are developed by pharmaceutical companies though.

2018-07-07 23:38:34 UTC

but then if you do X drug you cannot own a firearm or operate a vehicle or not get Y license? i dunno

2018-07-07 23:38:46 UTC

I don't believe the problem is drug use

2018-07-07 23:38:55 UTC

Rye has drugs with Citizen

Wolfeed news brings you only the most recent alternative facts

2018-07-07 23:38:57 UTC

It's behavior on drugs.

2018-07-07 23:38:58 UTC

Aren't there countries where they have clinics that you can dope up in and then go on with your day? hasn't that helped?

2018-07-07 23:39:07 UTC

There's also the cartels to worry about, too.

2018-07-07 23:39:22 UTC

@Dr.Wol not even necessarily.... i hound on ancaps all the time about the fact that there WOULD probably be a de facto government in this NAP sort of state.... because you CAN consent explicitly to being governed within a government, cant you?

2018-07-07 23:39:24 UTC

I believe any drug with known psychotropic effects should result in not being able to use a gun while you're using that drug

2018-07-07 23:39:26 UTC

In the current drug trade, the NAP gets violated quite terribly.

2018-07-07 23:39:37 UTC

Right so if they legalize it, then the cartels won't.... how do you end the black market? you gotta drive the cost so far down that the market isn't worth it.

2018-07-07 23:39:55 UTC

To say that drug use in the modern sense is victimless is not quite accurate. The product creates victims along the way to it.

2018-07-07 23:40:00 UTC

Same with Prostitution, frequently.

2018-07-07 23:40:31 UTC

But as far as drug use itself goes

2018-07-07 23:40:43 UTC

if it was regulated and you had to clock in for your 12-4 am hookin shift then they would know you are legal us citizen or are at least claming to be.

2018-07-07 23:40:53 UTC

I don't care. But people should be held fully responsible for their actions on drugs.

2018-07-07 23:41:06 UTC

The decision to take drugs was made while sober.

2018-07-07 23:41:11 UTC

thats just capitalist libertarians

Ancaps are "Anarchist Capitalists" meaning theres no government to maintain order

2018-07-07 23:41:14 UTC

so then it gets back to morality and honesty and not being some machiavellian dick. but everyone wants to be the prince.

2018-07-07 23:41:36 UTC

Actions on drugs i concur. thats why i lock the doors the when i turn the brights on.

2018-07-07 23:42:02 UTC

im just going to sneak out of here now... feel free to keep beating the shit out of the ancap strawman you have built up πŸ˜‰

2018-07-07 23:42:21 UTC

everything you do carries the consequence to your future self? unless you are killing yourself then you should be conscious that it is affecting you post moment

2018-07-07 23:42:22 UTC

i'm not sure why you assume im strawmanning anything

2018-07-07 23:42:38 UTC

im just wrastlin!

2018-07-07 23:42:42 UTC

Even if you're killing yourself you're affecting your future

2018-07-07 23:42:43 UTC

your only solution to answering something you have no response to is claiming a strawman

2018-07-07 23:42:54 UTC

if you kill yourself then that is your future?

2018-07-07 23:43:06 UTC

unless we go back to nirvanic reincarnation.

2018-07-07 23:43:06 UTC

I mean, if you think we're strawmanning you by debating Ancap principles, that's a you problem...

2018-07-07 23:43:07 UTC

Death

2018-07-07 23:43:15 UTC

but then maybe thats the determinism of it all?

2018-07-07 23:43:19 UTC

You keep using that word, i don't think you know what it means

2018-07-07 23:43:29 UTC

its the balance

2018-07-07 23:43:36 UTC

nirvanic is not a word... i think

2018-07-07 23:43:51 UTC

but it means something to me that isn't being sent to you correctly.

2018-07-07 23:43:52 UTC

i was refering to Poptart, not you citizen

2018-07-07 23:44:00 UTC

oy vey my feelings are hurt

2018-07-07 23:44:06 UTC

sry lol

2018-07-07 23:44:08 UTC

πŸ˜›

2018-07-07 23:44:10 UTC

i want to be benevolent dictator 4 life, everybutty, vote 4 poptarts

2018-07-07 23:44:36 UTC

Yeah, initially I thought I was dealing with an Ancap in you. I'm pretty sure you're just a radical libertarian at this point.

2018-07-07 23:45:42 UTC

and i also said that i hound ancaps all the time for talking about abolishing "the government" .... what if ppl HAVE consented explicitly to a government of their choice?

2018-07-07 23:46:09 UTC

then they're not ancaps, they're democratic voters

2018-07-07 23:46:15 UTC

Like, I had a friend the other day that was talking shit about the 'Social Contract'.

2018-07-07 23:46:24 UTC

Uh, the NAP is a social contract, too...

2018-07-07 23:46:31 UTC

libertarian, yes. radical, no. i did vote for the President as a giant middle finger to my worthless vote here in California

2018-07-07 23:46:44 UTC

I'm so sorry.

2018-07-07 23:46:56 UTC

Come to Texas. We could use more like you.

2018-07-07 23:47:03 UTC

lol i want to

2018-07-07 23:47:26 UTC

Although, ffs, learn to get your ideas across a bit better, man! πŸ˜›

2018-07-07 23:47:36 UTC

too bad such draconian drug laws in Texas! MJ needs to be decriminalized and normalized across the board

2018-07-07 23:47:47 UTC

its comin'

2018-07-07 23:47:53 UTC

It actually looks like it is.

2018-07-07 23:48:03 UTC

how do you think trump is going to get reeelected?

2018-07-07 23:48:12 UTC

lol

2018-07-07 23:48:20 UTC

I would also like to be able to try weed, since I live in a state where it's legal

2018-07-07 23:48:32 UTC

if he really wanted to, he'd de-criminalize MJ or at least legalize it (with an iron fist)

2018-07-07 23:48:36 UTC

damn security clearance not allowing federally illegal drug use

2018-07-07 23:49:09 UTC

mmmm, I actually think employers, including the government, should be able to have that sort of requirement.

2018-07-07 23:49:14 UTC

Sorry m8

2018-07-07 23:49:27 UTC

not saying he would have to do that, but i mean its pretty much a non issue now. its legal across canada in what september? yeah hes going ride this blue wave while blazing a cuban blunt right to the edge of his wall... which probably won't happen until 2022.... maybe wtf do i know

2018-07-07 23:49:38 UTC

I'm fine with drug use being allowed

2018-07-07 23:49:45 UTC

an iron but fair fist

2018-07-07 23:49:46 UTC

I draw the line at drug user as a protected class

2018-07-07 23:50:29 UTC

they do have it. most places just don't drug test because of cost i'd imagine.

2018-07-07 23:50:51 UTC

in like retail/service industry. but even in certain services they probably would first time.

2018-07-07 23:51:04 UTC

and then if an incident occurred.

2018-07-07 23:51:11 UTC

I drive for a living for my day job.

2018-07-07 23:51:27 UTC

I had to take a drug test.

2018-07-07 23:51:51 UTC

I'm also applying for a CHL. I'll be expected to be sober.

2018-07-07 23:52:11 UTC

https://www.lawdepot.com/blog/what-makes-a-contract-invalid/ i was posting this yesterday regarding the social contract

2018-07-07 23:52:16 UTC

Once I get the chance, I'll be starting Pilot classes

2018-07-07 23:52:39 UTC

getting those survivor skills ready? worried that 2.0 is comin? πŸ˜›

2018-07-07 23:52:46 UTC

Much like my drone license, I'm expected to stay off the Devil's Cabbage.

2018-07-07 23:52:58 UTC

i got my drone liscence

2018-07-07 23:53:08 UTC

it sure was a pain in the ass

2018-07-07 23:53:10 UTC

oy mates, you got a loicense for dem drones?

2018-07-07 23:53:22 UTC

You don't have to have a license for a drone unless you intend to make money with it.

2018-07-07 23:53:30 UTC

did you mean lengthy prison sentences?

2018-07-07 23:53:40 UTC

land surveying?

2018-07-07 23:53:51 UTC

I'm working on building a media company.

2018-07-07 23:53:57 UTC

nice

2018-07-07 23:54:05 UTC

porn? porn.

2018-07-07 23:54:06 UTC

i wish you the luck with that

2018-07-07 23:54:14 UTC

Citizen, you from Texas?

2018-07-07 23:54:30 UTC

Alex ?

2018-07-07 23:54:31 UTC

i aint doxxxxxxxxxing myself!!!!!!!!.... but no

2018-07-07 23:54:38 UTC

~~it will fail sadly but it doesnt hurt to go into new territories~~

2018-07-07 23:54:52 UTC

yeah lets not and say we did

2018-07-07 23:55:47 UTC

I mean... It might, it might not. I'm being clever about it, scary. πŸ˜›

2018-07-07 23:56:04 UTC

i just want to wrap up the whole NAP argument with this resource for anyone who is interested..... ["Ed Stringham: Private Governance "] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiFWiGdLwE8 and i'll leave it at that for now

2018-07-07 23:56:25 UTC

is there a reason why embeds are turned off?

2018-07-07 23:56:38 UTC

Probably to prevent ye olde heckler's veto

2018-07-07 23:56:59 UTC

i think they let you once lvl 10?

2018-07-07 23:56:59 UTC

im not aware of this

2018-07-07 23:57:02 UTC

oh

2018-07-07 23:57:03 UTC

yeah

2018-07-07 23:57:08 UTC

thats going to be quite a while

2018-07-07 23:57:20 UTC

Not really

2018-07-07 23:57:26 UTC

I'm almost rank 9 already

2018-07-07 23:57:31 UTC

with my luck yes

2018-07-07 23:57:33 UTC

I only started posting yesterday

2018-07-07 23:57:38 UTC

https://www.lawdepot.com/blog/what-makes-a-contract-invalid/ make sure to read this article and think about how it applies to the "social contract" too

2018-07-07 23:57:57 UTC

i'm above level 10, lets see

2018-07-07 23:58:09 UTC

nope this channel doesn't have thumnails

2018-07-07 23:58:13 UTC

what are these levels?

2018-07-07 23:58:38 UTC

When you start out on this server, you're a Pleb

2018-07-07 23:58:43 UTC

Rank 10, you become a Normie

2018-07-07 23:58:46 UTC

a system to prevent newcomers to just spam links everywhere

2018-07-07 23:58:53 UTC

Rank 20, Regular

2018-07-07 23:58:56 UTC

Rank 30, Veteran

2018-07-07 23:58:58 UTC

so if we really want to debate about our levels, we should start with why mee6

2018-07-07 23:59:01 UTC

Rank 40, Contributor

2018-07-07 23:59:05 UTC

so its just a time? or a post over time?

2018-07-07 23:59:14 UTC

if you write a message you get points, and you level up

2018-07-07 23:59:18 UTC

and it has a 1 minute cooldown

2018-07-07 23:59:20 UTC

you get a random amount of xp between 15 and 25 once per minute for posting

2018-07-07 23:59:23 UTC

so you can't "spam" your way to high level

2018-07-07 23:59:29 UTC

yeah no spam please

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