debate
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It's not either or
Exactly which is why Kavanaugh would have a very hard time suing her for defamation.
He can't prove she's lying.
Her claim that she was victimized and Kavanaugh's claim that he is innocent can both simultaneously be true
She can also wholeheartedly believe it was him, and that could be false
Which means she isn't lying
It's Hanlons razor
And occom's razor
Dual wielded.
There's also the possibility he has forgotten.
Presume she's wrong first. If there's no explaining it that way, you can begin to presume she's lying
Also possible.
To her, it could be the day he took everything from her. To him, it was Thursday.
https://youtu.be/iVzAMmpMra8 for anyone who doesn't get the reference
There is no proof for either side, if it did happen and was tried when it happened, it would have been in a sealed record. And if this was a character flaw and not an example of a teen who had yet to figure out his alcohol limit, there would be more accusations that sound credible.
And not over a hundred people standing with Kavanaugh, signing their names to letters.
The evidence for claims against Kav was in Kav's favor.
But dont forget tim โgive more credit to fords allegationโ
Because she has โnothing to gainโ
Exempt 500k+
No book deal or hbo show yet either
Like they gave that bitch who accused Clarence thomas
"exempt 500k+ and her party delaying the vote until after they might have more power"
@Timcast i feel like sometimes you are right on but damn when you miss you just turn around from the target and shot in the other direction
She didn't set the gofundme things up.
you cant claim ford is guna make moeny when other ppl set up gofundmes
zealotry is the most likely reason
but i think she is just confused
plain and simple
this whole Kav vs Ford thing is modern witch hunt... though maybe sorcerer hunt would be more appropriate name.
"Warlock Hunt"
@grant I was referring to people's dismissal of her as a liar. I didn't mean her claims = proof.
I think we can't assume more without evidence.
I think we cant assume anything without evidence
Unfortunately some people can
"Title IX courts are just on campus. Once people go to the real world they'll learn."
"I don't think the significant increase in divide between Americans started with Trump's election." Change my mind.
I honestly don't think the recent SIGNIFICANT DIVIDE started with Trump's election. While Trump certainly isn't helping the divide, I believe he is merely a symptom of the problem and not the cause. I believe the Left itself has changed & this change is connected to the media. The divide became noticeably bad around 2010s with the rise of Alt-media, like Buzzfeed, that pushed a different kind of liberalism. Anyone who lives in Southern California, where all this Alt-media resides, knows they hold a different kind of liberalism when compared to the old-school liberalism that used to reside in places, like New York, where the old media used to reside. You can see it in the Identity Politics that are being pushed by these Alt-media companies. It's a more revolutionary liberalism where you see yourself "fighting oppression" rather than lifting others up by reaching out with a compassionate hand. Now don't get me wrong, each side has been drifting away from the center thus contributing to the problem but I think the Leftwing overall bears a lot more responsibility for the divide than they're willing to admit...at least currently.
Again, Trump is not helping the situation & I wish he would stop being such an @sshole sometimes but I can't ignore the division the Left's identity politics have caused, unlike so many people in the mainstream media do. It's quite clear the Left is lurching closer & closer to the extreme as shown by PEW Research, who is extremely trustworthy btw. You can also see this with the rise of DSA, who literally chant "No borders, No walls, No USA at all." There is even a growing distain for having simple conversations on the Left even with people who are moderate. I myself hold liberal views (Ex. Pro-choice, Pro-LGBT, Pro-weed, Pro-social programs) as well as a few Conservative viewpoints (Ex. Pro-gun) but I can't even have a conversation with most members of the modern left anymore. It's scary. I didn't even vote for Trump and I don't think I will but to them I'm somehow still a far-right Nazi. Basically what I'm saying is I think the significant rise in division is coming from the fact Left's new ideological base resides in California, which has a radical different set of principles, than that of the old school, working class Left that dominated New York.
I personally put the entire blame on the schools and academic left.
In degrees like sociology, there's actually more radicals than moderates of any stripe.
And they've been crossing fields to write the textbooks.
And fund the museums.
And define the curricula.
All of this, the race-and-sex-centrism, the "anyone not with us is the right," the need to rabid direct activism anywhere and everywhere possible was foreshadowed in the academies since the 90s.
And they've raised a generation to think like them.
The rise of the new left alt-media is a strong driver, but it's water on a seed.
I wouldn't put all the blame on the Left but I can't ignore what I've seen coming from the Left. The things I've seen are quite disconcerting.
It's extremely concerning.
I've been in a very left-wing place (academia).
What people are seeing is just the tip of the iceberg.
The Kavanaugh circus is far fairer than a Title IX investigation.
I've seen people submit evidence for Title IX courts (hard, solid alibis--not merely hearsay) and get it not only rejected but then lose jobs.
Because it contradicted the woman.
People don't realize where this is all headed.
It's really not a working class left either.
The word I've heard is that it's anew Brahmin left.
It sees itself as the sole moral authority and just wants to pass around money as a way of asserting more power.
Make the people dependent on your cash and you gain more control.
They won't say it that way, but they will believe they are doing "the best thing" and that the working class doesn't understand what's best for them ("what's wrong with Kansas?")
Just as much to the point, the activist elements drive out any opposition leaving an echo chamber that cannot take any form of dissent on any issue whatsoever.
As such they won't accept considerations of contradictions or "capitalist frames"
Like, you can't point out that both Islam and Christianity aren't exactly fond of homosexuality.
Not even recommend a course of action. Just point out the fact.
The scary part is that in the rush to oppose Trump, the old left is coming on board.
So yes, I agree with you, the new left is very different from the old left and has been around long before Trump and would emerge even without Trump.
But it's only getting worse. And even if Trump were removed from office tomorrow, they'll only get more authoritarian once they have power.
Look at the crowd funding site than banned all Republicans from their site.
Which one again?
I forget the name, Timpool did a story on it a while back.
Personally, I'm still really deeply concerned about that Obama Tea Party Tax scandal. That's what the new left believes is just. And I have no doubt they'll do it again with more force next time.
Or what happened in Wisconsin with the morning raids.
I'm on SSI, literally dependant on handouts, but I'm at the point wehre I can't support the modern left, a right winger who wants to cut off all my support programs and force me to wage slave or starve is more trustworthy because they don't want to mind control me.
Bernie Sanders is too far to the right for them because he's a Nordic Capitlaist instead of Full Venezuela.
Washington state
Ayy PNW
I blame it on the 24 Hours news cycle and advertisement based entertainment.
The news networks needed to continually ramp up events to get viewers/clicks so they kept pushing things farther and farther.
There's a lot of moneyt o be made treating real life like it's pro wrestling
There's even a heel in the white house now
actually IIRC
Trump was the face when he was in WWE
cause Vince almost always played the Heel.
We need a president who can actually sell a stunner though
Trump's are pretty limp
So Dolph Ziggler 2020?
This was a really good breakdown of the hearing and the moral aspects of it. Also talked a bit about the left and "civil war". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYz2qQ_PswI
Fak it doesn't embed.
no embeds allowed in this text channel
Yeah I noticed.
No cigar smoking allowed? That 's insane
I remember the uptight 80s and it wasn't this bad
@Knights Armament I'm going to mostly agree and add that if you're looking for a specific early example of Leftist identity politics causing divide, look no further than the Atheism+ movement that started back in 2012. The insertion of ideas that feminism and intersectionality are key aspects of being a proper skeptic caused a huge rift in the Atheist community, and even back then you had things similar to the more modern #metoo movement with that one lady who claimed to be sexually assaulted in an elevator by some prominent member of the Atheist community. Caused huge schisms along the same lines we see today (believe victims vs. innocent until proven guilty). The only difference is these politics have become much more visible in the mainstream now especially with them becoming increasingly dominant in institutions like Academia and Journalism. Trumps election is absolutely a symptom of the problem but his pushback also fuels the divide. Whether or not you can call that his fault is an entirely different discussion that I would be conflicted on, although I learn towards it mostly not being his fault.
Richard Dawkins
isnt he that biologist?
He was a popular voice of skeptics
Cause of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion
Sorry let me correct that, she wasn't sexually assaulted in an elevator. A man said at an elevator that he found her attractive and asked to come up for coffee which she took exception to in a video and a slate article. Dawkins weighed in that complaining about that is basically being whiny esp considering the guy left her alone after that and never layed a finger on her.
yeah, i know of that book :)
i watched a debate between him and a cardinal
why'd u mention him?
he was involved with the incident I am referencing
oh :o
the author of that article is the woman?
The one from the elevator yes, but she doesn't accuse Dawkins of sexually harassing/assaulting her
I misremembered the stories details
did u say she accused dawkins of sexually harassing/assaulting her then?
No, I initially said she accused a prominent member of the Atheist community of sexually assaulting her in an elevator. Risotto brought up Dawkins. My details of the story were wrong so I wanted to clarify that it wasn't a prominent member and it was claims of harassment.
oh, okay :)
I remember it was a big deal at the time
i do think she went too far
Yeah I remember it being a big deal too
It was actually a sort of landmark moment where I started to think the left was becoming unhinged
That's part of why I liken it to the metoo movement we have now
I was thinking, "being socially awkward and failing to flirt with someone isn't a crime"
i do think the metoo movement is positive, though
It was positive
Yeah. I also remember it still very much being the "wild wild west" kind of internet at the time
mhm
```
I was thinking, "being socially awkward and failing to flirt with someone isn't a crime"
````Risotto - 29-09-2018 07:00 | #debate`
So it was very much like "okay some trolls said some dumb shit online" and that doesn't really reflect the atheist movement in general
I don't know, somehow I'm beginning to think that Christopher Hitchens was the best and brightest of the "4 Horsemen" and the other 2 are Morons that are just totally wrong with their radical Atheism bullcrap. The 4th I don't know, never heard much about him.
I think Christopher also concentrated more on Islam and less Christianity....
Dawkins is fine, Harris is fine on philosophy but got too hung up on Hillary
Harris is also the one that said we may need to glass a few ME dictatorships if they get nukes, FYI. Dude isnt ignoring that issue in the slightest. Also Hitchens was a Trotskyist who then swapped to Neocon
Gotta let people have their flaws
harris is fucking hilarious on his own
in the best sort of rational way
and i say that as somebody if i had to choose more in the JBP camp. I love Harris
I agree with Harris on most things except he does have a touch of TDS
He's totally wrong about religion.
as someone who is active in Tech Forums, I know that people would be less fanatic fanboys if they had a religion fill their hole in their heart.
People don't believe in God, they believe in some leather Jacket wearing Assholes.
That is not an improvement.
Fanboys act like highly religious people, like you insult their faith when you tell them that you don't like certain aspects of the Company or their Products.
I guess you're right. I try to listen to the message more than follow the person. Like if JBP went full SJW or Alt-Right, I would definitely back away
"People don't believe in God, they believe in some leather Jacket wearing Assholes."
wot
JBP puts a ridiculous amount of time and energy into countersignalling against the alt-right.
but there are other things like Fruits, consoles, clothes and any other shit imaginable.
who dis fuk? I've never been religious fyi
going by the actual definition of religion
@devpav Problem is the Alt-Right has a couple of valid points and the fight against them is kinda pointless as (almost) nobody advocates for violence in the Alt-Right.
@Beemann Jen Hsun Huang, CEO of nVidia
Maybe JBP does it to give himself more room to stick to his IQ realism.
You know what an Alt-Righter would say about that? ๐
so his primary targets are left and right wing identitarians
I know that JBP is basically a boomer conservative.
But its also another thing to thiink of: Sometimes you fight that thing the hardest because you don't want to accept their truth, because you don't want to admit that that side has a couple of points.
```I know that JBP is basically a boomer conservative.```
Burp, wrong. He's a lefty. But he knows "the Terror" of the 20th Century as that is what he has studied. And he doesn't want that. Also he likes money.
Or as he would say: There are no right wing Psychologists.
isnt that a bit of an odd thing to say after insisting that all Atheists worship products?
@Beemann I didn't say that. I said that with religion we wouldn't have the Fanboy Wars. That is my Statement. I never said all ๐
"People don't believe in God, they believe in some leather Jacket wearing Assholes." this is a generalized statement
True but it does mean most, not all ๐
or in General
re: Harris specifically https://samharris.org/a-plea-for-spirituality/
Harris believes in deep, meaningful experiences outside of religion. So not just rampant consumerism and nihilism
wich is basically Religion ๐
no, it isnt
Its just a religion without: a) god, b) calling it a religion.
a religion refers to a faith or supernaturally based org/set of practices
if you want to broaden the definition to mean basically anything, then you're no longer having a proper discussion of Harris' opposition to religion
JBP's muh individualism vs collectivism is typical conservatism, not leftism.
collectivism is trash btw ๐
So what are you then, an anarchist?
>any group is collectivism
read a book please
Another secret recording from inside a collage reeeeducation meeting. This is a good one.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/abQwa99i5r8/
Benjamin Boyce "HARMFUL" FACTS CENSORED IN CANADIAN UNIVERSITY
'it's not critical thinking, it's critical mindedness, which is different.'
''''don't think critically about what you are saying, think critically about whether or not you should say it.''''
Have anyone compiled a list of banned persons/groups e.g twitter, facebook, reddit, youtube etc.?
I have a gut feeling there is a distinct pattern here.
sam and jbp goodbois
alex jones and infowars is on there
only a matter of time before mgtow is discriminated against
oh wait its already happening
but when they debate eachother they both seem less convincing to me lol, sam loses any depth he appeared to have before and peterson talks kinda circular
well u have to keep talking about what u preach otherwise people wont listen
also subjectively i have to agree with @Stefan Payne on people just replacing religion or spirituality of some form with either other individuals or insert x groups belief (usually political). i don't think this means you HAVE to be religious, but its a fallacy to try and not fall into if you are faithless since the instinct does genuinely seem programmed into most people, and it can happen real easy if you aren't weary of it
that only happens to the idiots that follow the crowd and not their heart, if you find something that really speaks to u than do it. Not just because someone else is doing it
then*
Back in those days, "What are facts?" were just one pillar
But during the Enlightenment it overtook the others
I should just link the video that's from
I thought that was a nice graphic so I capped it
@Deleted User ya the whole 'follow your heart' thing doesn't speak to a lot of relatively intelligent but neurotic people, it sounds completely empty to them, tbh kinda a slap in the face. Sams point with that would work if everybody was naturally motivated but they aren't, which in regards to more regular life advice stuff is where some of petersons stuff speaks to more people
idk i dont like being one of the masses, just so boring and un fulfilling to follow someone without believing in them/it yourself
oh yeah ofc nothing wrong with that
i think payne was more refering to people who put individuals on very high pedestals, to the extreme etc
I can't remember where I saw it, but I heard a theory that unmarried men are much more to the right than average and unmarried women are much more to the left. Supposedly, marriage moderates both sexes.
isn't jbp pretty much self help 101 + jesus
No, JBP is baby's first Nietzsche and Jung + Jesus
Peterson is half right but Harris is all wrong.
Whats JBP wrong about? actually curious
Oh what was the Jesus Word Harris used??
Jesus Smuggling?
sorry, that was @Stefan Payne
Yes, that was it!
Y'know, Sam Harris is the most religious person in the Pangbourne debates
his religion is Atheism. He is more evanjelical than the Mormons
Everyone's got a religion
mine's anime thighs
```Everyone's got a religion```
Exactly my point. When you don't believe in God, your mind looks for other things to believe in. And if they aren't ment to be believed in, its a very very bad thing.
many people are ok with not knowing
I've got no idea
there could be a god of some kind
Or maybe we all originated from the big bang
Or maybe we are living in a simulation
or maybe something completely different
my religion is capitalism
```Everyone's got a religion```
I dont. That might be thing for people who "stopped beliving"๐ค
But i have been atheist all my life. So no, not everyone have religion.
I think the issue here is what people define as a "relligion"
Like for example, is relligion something you hold as a standard? "I relligiously follow a certain rule"
A diety you follow? What constitutes a diety?
The lack of belief a belief?
If you want to continue this discussion further it would be wise for everyone to state what their defination of a relligion is. Or at the very least, what something has to have before you consider it relligion
religion
rษชหlษชdส(ษ)n/
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
"ideas about the relationship between science and religion"
synonyymit:faith,ย belief,ย divinity,ย worship,ย creed,ย teaching,ย doctrine,ย theology
a particular system of faith and worship.
plural noun:ย religions
"the world's great religions"
a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.
"consumerism is the new religion"
Belief is to hold some value or statement as self-evident
There is nothing in the universe to prove that justice is real. Even when it comes to matter vs antimatter, the universe is heavily biased towards matter. But since ancient times we have upheld justice as a cardinal virtue.
Many athiests believe the failings of communism have been that bad people attempted it, not systematic.
yeah all commies are retarded.
but good old "correlation does not imply causation"
1.) I think Donald should call the Press "JJJ" from Spider-Man
2.) ```my religion is capitalism```
That is very bad as you can see in China, where they have no Religion and would sell their mother for Money...
selling your mother for money isn't capitalism. it's just common sense.
some people preach atheism as if it's just another religion
>selling your mother for money is just common sense.
WTF
>some people preach atheism as if it's just another religion
they are not atheist by the defenition...
having a mother is not a good investment
if you can find someone who buys, then it's just common sense to sell
a lot of people with mothers end up having to pay a lot to keep them alive in an elderly home
lol
*it must suck to be unwanted accident kid with no father.*
i imagine it does
Well, I refer peoples to JBP. you may say you are not religious but I'd wager you live your live pretty closely to a religious ideal. actions do speak louder than words.
well what if the ideals originate from something different than religion in the first place?
maybe we're drawn to religious ideals for a reason
because we already resonate with them
we just need some help with having more consistency with applying them to our life, and having the principles formulated
umm, if you live in a western country the values came from Judeo-Christianity.
Communist did away with religion and they suddenly did not value life and other things.
personally I think mankind has a God shaped hole in our heart. not advocating existance of God here.
If we don't fill it with something good it will be filled by other things like feminism or the worship of the state
^
well then it sounds like my argument is compatible with your argument
im saying that if we didnt already resonate with it, then judeo christianity would have never been a thing in the first place
The basis of human life being sacred is again Judeo-Christian. A spark of the Divine in all of us so to slay a man is to commit deicide
the reason we resonate with it could be either due to how a god made us, or how we simply evolved, it doesnt matter for the sake of my argument
nah it evolved over a long time. the final human sacrifice was codified as Christ so no one else would need to make that 'physical' sacrifice
I'm not religious myself, but from what I've seen when we get rid of certain value system another one replaces it. That new value system doesn't necessarily value human life or liberty
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