I wish people had more patience with eachother.

^^^

Nowadays, it seems people are less willing to clash opinions towards the goal of _personal_ growth, and instead, go for a more _targeted_ approach. They'd much rather use people as sponges to absorb their ideologies, and dummies to yell at to feel superior.

When those sponges and dummies yell back, they don't know what to do except continue yelling

and it goes on and on and on and on

The cycle of ideological and moral idiocy.

Yeah I like debating anyone to improve my own views by either strengthening them or adapting them to encompass new facts.

^^^

😮 😮 😮

😠

. . .

I just try to avoid any debates tbh. I never been good creating counter-arguments within a split second and I'm mostly too lazy to source my claims. However, I still hold certain opinions because I atleast understand the basics of most social and political topics

Anyway, I seem to be socially liberal, but fiscally conservative.

I'm shit at verbal debates.

I'm a stumbling and stuttering dumbass when it comes to formulating my opinions under stress.

Yeah, I'm not good at actual debate, especially without preparation or if the topic changes to something I haven't researched.

oh my god..

yee, same here haha. If it's like a reddit thread or something similar, I have no problem standing my own ground.

@Enigmus you are in the r/yiff server too

hello fellow degenerate

who?

hahaha

😂

debating isnt about creating instant counter-arguments, debaters always come into a debate with prepared notes based on what they think the other person will argue.

Oftentimes, it feels like an ambush

*good debaters

Which it essentially is sometimes

yes, and thats why you prepare

Yeah.

Found some old poll results of mine https://prnt.sc/hsc9qf

follow the teaching of Sun Tzu: know your enemy and know yourself.

It's hard to prepare when it's an ambush.

I'd rather not go around, jumping at social shadows.

And again, when the topic changes and shifts around.

^

if you are confident that its an ambush, don't take the debate.

"Let me just take out my binder..."

So what you're saying is...

I can see why you would prepare if you're in a real/planned debated. However if it's just some random person or family member that brings something up that you disagree, you're not going to have notes you're ready to use for that kind of debate

That too.

😮

well if you plan on debating random people, make sure you know your own position.

I just say I don’t know enough about a topic and don’t debate it or ask people to explain their views to me.

to the point where you can predict and debunk or deconstruct the opposing arguments.

Yeah, sometimes, people like to bounce off what they've heard off of other people simpy because they heard it from a person with whom they agree with most of the time.

Part of the problem is the idea that saying "let me think on that and get back with an answer" is weakness

Yee but I'm also not a politician. No way I'm investing that much time into politics when I have vydia games to play and work to go to

To be frank, I also don't care enough about the subject matter to memorize ever single possible minute detail and counter-point to any potential argument against it, either.

Yeah, I've got other stuff to do.

Greetings people

I always hated reading through articles and PDF files in debates.

Like hentai? You dirty perv

if you're genuinely interested in pursuit of the truth, you would welcome your "opponent" coming back at you with the best thought out response they have

But I could never back down

So I just suffered for my own ego

you dont have to know the minute details, you just have to know what your premises are. From that, you can reason out the rest of your position

Again, saying and doing are two entirely different things.

technically, debates aren't about truth, they are about convincing the audience.

Humans may say one thing, but do another entirely.

It's a good trait to be able to follow up.

that makes them a hipocrite

Plus, many debates will inevitably come down to "who has more studies and statistics behind their argument", rather than who has the best philosophy and reasoning.

Emotions are damaging to intellectual stability, Revolver

Sir Oswald Mosley a great debater and orator

thats why you need to be able to control your emotions

In the moment, you may say or do something you didn't intend on doing

>just control your emotions

Saying and doing.

In the moment, it's not so easy for some people.

YOU NEED DISCIPLINE!

It's a comfortable position to say that while calm. Another entirely while frustrated and not thinking clearly.

And again, debate is a practiced skill, meaning some people will just be naturally better at it than others.

It's a process.

there are ways to control your emotions, I understand that its harder for some people, but you can do it if you follow a methodology like Buddhism for example.

especially when your opponent is actively trying to disrupt your emotional state and obfuscate what they're saying

you have to essentially learn how not to care

I wouldn't practice apathy

I've went down that road

thats not what I mean

Can I jump rope without a rope?

Destiny isn't a good debater, he just takes easy targets

The left lose most debates because it’s all fueled by emotion.

That was the joke, sorry. lol

I don't believe in destiny personally. I just believe in changeable circumstances.

when he comes across someone with a coherent position, he just ends up going "WaAaAhT!?!?"

@Enigmus destiny is a YouTuber.

oh

...

He's not a *bad* debator, but debates with him typically end up getting mired in definitions and descriptions.

:c

I...

yeah

That was a blunder, lol.

like I said, he doesn't debate with good opponents, he just gets random people on twitter and pulls them into a debate.

He debated Sargon.

And Sargon subsequently pasted him.
Verbally speaking.

Destiny... who is that?

Is that his literal name on YouTube?

and then when Sargon debated with him, he had a hissy fit and DMCAs his second channel for putting clips of the debate on it.

that or OmniDestiny

Yeah.

😮

Destiny vs Jontron was interesting.

In a bad way.

Jontron is a smart guy, he's just not very practiced at debates.

Yeah

Jontron isn't that smart

he doesn't have a well fleshed out view of politics

he shouldn't have taken the debate

Not having the full picture and thinking that you do doesn't make you inherently dumb in all aspects. That's kind of a blanket-statement.

he was at serious risk of romanticising the alt-right

I don’t think he fully understood what the alt-right is.

I think you have to listen for what he was *trying* to say, since he didn't articulate it all that well.

Yeah

^

he's a funny guy, I like him, but I don't think a lot of the opinions he gave in that debate weren't his own.

I don't know if they 'weren't his own' or not, since only he knows, but I tihnk it's safe to say he just worded them really badly.

I think he, like a lot of people, is just a displaced leftie

Sargon sort of backed him up by saying he doesn’t know how to present his views properly.

Thinking vs. knowing are two different things.

But also called him an idiot lol.

I'd be awful at articulating my thoughts in a verbal debate

yeah, he is literally reiterating my point.

then don't do it

>don't practice at stuff you aren't inherently good at

its fine not to do a debate that you aren't confident with

>don't attempt to better yourself

I gotta build that confidence.

I gotta learn and practice.

And sometimes, that means putting myself in stressful situations.

Can always use VC but most of us probably agree with each other on a lot of topics.

if you want to do the debate, I'm not going to stop you, but I'm just saying that 1.you should prepare before hand and 2.remember that the debate is about convincing the audience

Probably on most topics.

I don't see the debate being about solely convincing someone else of something

It’s both convincing yourself and others.

I'd much rather go in on an even field, wanting to learn and _'expand my horizons'_

Tbh, I like your attitude a lot, because you are taking the responsibility of learning into your own hands.

That's my main goal tbh

Yeah.

Again, saying and doing are two different things. Human beings are very biased creatures.

its better to go into the debate with a solid understanding than to just appeal to emotions and push logical fallacies.

It can often be quite the hurdle to get over those biases.

IE, the far-left as it is today

They're sort of trying to swallow classic liberalism and claim it as their own

In my opinion, you are only biased so much as you are using your emotions and not using rational thought.

Even without emotion, our biases affect how we think and act.

how

explain.

When you think something for as long as you do, it's hard to just see past that.

Life experiences.

yes

but thats because its tied to emotion

You can be as _'rational'_ as you want to be, but even _'emotionless'_, you still need to watch out

It's shaped how you think

seriously, look into something like Buddhism or Objectivism

Emotion has a lot to do with it yeah, but it's not the sole thing

it will help you to overcome bias

"Excuse me, sir, but do you have a moment to discuss our lord and savior, Buddah?"

thats not what Buddhism is about

>joking

lol]

fair enough

It's a fascinating belief system, though.

I'm not a Buddhist to be clear, but my friend recommended the book of the way to me and I got something out of it

>about to derail the topic slightly

So, uh. These channels. One is breaking news. Another is news. Another is fake news. Technology, I guess? Hate speech, I guess? Shitposting works. It's a strangely-structured server. Very specific channels. I guess the breaking news channel is for discussing more important news, while this is for less important news? And I guess the hate speech channel is about discussing hate speech? Or mocking the blanket-statement that it's become?

I dunno, I guess I'm just a little iffy on the structure as a whole

this server seems fairly anarchic tbh

I thought that too when I joined

Is the hatespeech ironic?

its the room where you do hate speech

so we can all get arrested

lol

Reminds me of that guy who got in trouble for teaching his pug how to Nazi salute. In Ireland, I think

>wondering if this goes in hate-speech

oh well

Scotland

ah

Scotland, and his name is Count dankula

yeah

Top bloke

Funny guy

thats what I'm referring to

what a disgraceful affair

Aye

the crown is doing continual appeals to emotion and filibustering to run him into the ground through court fees

Yeah.

and using that to scare other people from doing similar jokes, basically order through fear

The policing is really getting to be ridiculous in the UK, from what I hear.

its dangerously close to criminalising comedy

People are gettin arrested for hate speech.

Anyone who even dares to suggest that the mass immigration has caused problems are at risk.

Then again

Word-of-mouth, and stray videos and articles

dangerously close? its a verdict away from the act of criminalising comedy

At least we aren't Germany...

I don't hear a lot about them. What's going on there?

No-wonder

You don't hear about them

in germany, nazi jokes are pretty much criminalised without trial or appeals

they have banned political positions

thats all you need to hear

**literally banning ideas**

Or

Yeah.

theres no charitable way to say that.

***illegal ideas*** as Merkel said Herself

you 'muricans hold onto your first two amendments now you hear? 😦 you don't wanna end up like us Europeans, where theres no freedom of speech, and people are not able to do anything

first one especially

Germany has been really touchy about anything someone might deem as "extreme." ever since the whole Adolf thing simmered down

you need the 2nd one to protect the 1st

I would give anything for the American constitution rn in the UK

anyone who says "the constitution is outdated" or "its not fit for the modern age" that person is coming for your rights.

Well, right now our left is trying to dismantle it.

Pretty much.

thankfully your Trump is utterly destroying them at any turn 😄

You Seem to be doing alright

Compared to us

we need Trumps across europe 😦

Yeah, the UK needs some kind of bill to protect rights. The fact that this is happening at all is just one step further towards an authoritarian construct.

The only reason to change the constitution is to add to it. Luckily that ability is already in the constitutuion.

If it doesn't get better, it'll get worse

This kind of thing doesn't just stagnate

its going to get worse, and it has to get worse before it gets better

Trump is protecting the constitution, but he isn't really enacting it... nationalists are just as willing to sacrifice rights for the good of the nation.

Where there's power and control to be had, you better believe certain types will grasp at it

We are also stuck between 2 authoritarian parties who both want to strip rights for safety

the UK is practically like Children of Men now

Eh?

A movie, I guess

Google, while being the cesspool that it is, is still useful

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206634/

I see

I can agree

We are an ember

The movie opens with a cafe being bombed by a terrorist while everyones watching the news about some shit like terrorism and theres a ton of immigrants

Almost gone but not quite yet

thats London

Reminds me of the opening to Justice League.
Anyone see that movie?

That’s england under civic nationalism too

I live in london

Its

Bad

Rip

Also civic nationalism is the only way about things

Radical is quick and easy

I hear in Paris there are gangs of immigrants who "coerce" you to buy stuff. Is that the case in London?

It is not responsible or very adult

Why would someone want to watch Justice League

More and more

I had my reasons.