Though it depends on the amount the company's are being forced to pay

15$ is also bad

But I gotta get on the road

Ttyl

@Cody so you punish companies because illegal immigrates are willing to work for less to get a job over someone else?

Codes, minimum wages are distortions. They might be useful when properly deployed, but that can easily be debated. Ultimately my take again is that I care not for the means, I care for the ends in this case. How do we ensure our people have food, shelter, basic clothing, and health care for illnesses that can cause mortality or significant morbidity.

TTFN Codes

I have to head to work too

Grenade, we could just deport them illegals and secure our borders

But hey

It's only black and white I guess

okay, so how about when the economy starts going down and people are willing to work for less in exchange for a job?

sink the company and put everyone out of work but hey, at least 1 person was getting 15 an hour instead of 2 making 7.50 an hour

But that is why having minimum wage too high is bad

yes, but how do you find out what is too high

Grenade, I personally think we need to do like we do for corporate fraud and require all corporations to have a human resource officer to sign that they are responsible for hiring practices. That person must have authority over hiring practices. If the company is found to be hiring illegals in a systemic or negligent manner, that person goes to jail.

This and large corporate fines will solve the problem pretty quick.

and how do you know it won't go from being reasonable, to suddently being too high?

But anyhow I really am about to start driving, be back in half an hour

np

No one takes seriously punishing those who hire illegals

If there was no market for their labor, the issue would minimize pretty quick

there wouldn't be a market if not for min wage and people not willing to work.

Oh, eliminating the min in my mind would *increase* demand for illegal labor

It would decrease demand for automation

i don't think it would increase demand for illegal labor

it wouldn't necessarily decrease it either

If illegals are willing to work below the price point for robots, why not? Unless we strengthen the punishments for employing them.

but it would put law abiding citizens on equal footing

why are we punishing companies for people wanting to work?

you'd rather these people make 0 money AND encourage automation to remove more jobs?

are you for people working or against?

Punish them for hiring people who do not have the right to work in the US

For working, against hiring those who do not have the legal right to work here

i don't know if the company should be the one punished for the crimes of an individual.

It takes two to commit this crime, both the worker willing to be payed below the minimum wage, and the employer who pays it

well that is different to what i was saying, which is to remove min wage.

But idk if its better to have a minimum wage or not

Right, it sure does simplify things i suppose

if you remove that, then what crime has a company really committed besides ones made up to catch the individual.

There wouldnt be any crime, if there were no minimum wage

I dont think that's a major issue

Isn't the plausibility of no minimum wage, the contention?

I don't think min wage is necessary. its too static and slow changing.

Just like Congress *smacks knee*

i mean, the government is slow moving by design.

if anything, its designed to fight itself for power and not really get anything done.

its supposed to be the states who really do things

And rightfully so, i would expect the federal government to properly establish viable ordinances in every county

In a nationwide manner

But anyways i suppose it comes down to whether the lack of a minimum wage benefits the majority of the citizens

Actually I think that ending the minimum wage would just make it worse

Think about it, having no minimum wage would not incentivize hiring Americans

An American still looks to progression in their wage

An illegal, would work for the same small amount forever if they could

It would just lead to actual Americans seeing wages fall, and it wouldn't solve the illegal workers problem

The minimum wage was never even the problem to begin with

It was illegal immigrants working for less than minimum wage

We need to punish companies who hire illegal immigrants, and decentivize them in those feilds

It would force companies to pay competitive wages, and then we could lower the minimum wage

@Grenade123

But as it stands, lowering the minimum wage wont actually fix anything, and getting rid of it would just cause unnecessary civil unrest

why would it?

it hasn't raised in forever

to get it where it is supposed ot be would be to jump to like 10-15 and hour

its been devaluing itself for a while now

I think you missed my point just a bit

But maybe I explained it poorly?

Minimum wage is primarily a market distortion. It leads to reduced employment. End of story.

And the story continues

It tends to be used as the classic example of how price floors cause a drop in the quantity supplied and lead to worse outcomes.

not to mention, it does not account for things like healthcare or providing for schooling.

Pratel, did you even read what I put before?

Like at all?

i already said min wage doesn't really address the work force issue. but it doesn't help it either.

illegals are already staying under the radar, which makes it easier for companies to hire them illegal

That's why we should punish the companies who hire illegal immigrants first

what illegal is going to dox himself to complain about bad pay

but a legal american?

why should we punish companies for the crimes of the individual?

do we punish the employer of a murder?

The company has committed a crime too

Firstly, illegal worker or not, the company employed someone for less than minimum wage

That in itself is a serious felony

@Cody Yeah. And it's almost entirely wrong.

I do not see how?

Your saying we shouldn't punish someone for hiring a person who can not legally work?

And if so, why?

You are using minimum wage to punish employers for an employees willingness to work for less than min wage

Then we punish them for hiring an illegal immigrant

then lets punish gab for having a murder on their platform

The problem will never go away until the company's themselves stop hiring illegals

they will never stop hiring so long as they are here.

So we must decentivize that

which incentives shipping jobs overseas anyway.

Then we need to secure our borders, then lower minimum wage

And outright abolish it slowly

Grenade, you do not see it as a crime to intentionally hire someone who can not legally work?

There was both intent, and action

By definition it's a crime punishable with our penal code