#general (Discord ID: 463054787336732683) in Subverse, page 417

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2018-08-22 03:43:12 UTC

I've been convincing my friends slowly but surely not to depend on things like Twitter, and to use free alternatives, and some even to use Linux

2018-08-22 03:43:18 UTC

I don't see any other solution. But it's not very popular here.

2018-08-22 03:43:18 UTC

Online Public Space providers would need restrictions. Cuz you can't just hang out on a street corner online.

2018-08-22 03:44:28 UTC

"internet bill of rights" needs to have an organized push, not just a bunch of detached people advocating for it

2018-08-22 03:44:38 UTC

these tubers know eachother

2018-08-22 03:44:42 UTC

I got so many ideas, so many opinions, and so many suggestions. Was taught it isn't wrong to throw ideas out there, because if we didn't do that, we wouldn't progress as a society.

2018-08-22 03:44:45 UTC

This was voted up on KIA yesterday.

2018-08-22 03:44:51 UTC

Learn to use cryptocurrencies, get off of facebook, and become less dependant on twitter. Also, we need some concrete internet bill of rights.

2018-08-22 03:45:03 UTC

they could easily write something up together

2018-08-22 03:45:12 UTC

Evidently, Josh Smith (whom I've never heard of) has been working on this for awhile.

2018-08-22 03:45:16 UTC

Have you guys notice that Wikipedia is being altered?

2018-08-22 03:45:22 UTC


2018-08-22 03:45:22 UTC

How so?

2018-08-22 03:45:25 UTC

By the liberals to suit their arguments?

2018-08-22 03:45:35 UTC

The "cultural Marxism" article is the best example IMO.

2018-08-22 03:45:35 UTC

@Dusty Morgan stop calling them liberals ffs

2018-08-22 03:45:42 UTC

I've seen some scary stuff going on at wikimedia

2018-08-22 03:45:47 UTC

The parent of wikipedia

2018-08-22 03:45:53 UTC

like Wizard of Cause is running for Office in his State. We need more like him pushing this

2018-08-22 03:45:54 UTC

You're on an actual Liberal's discord and you're calling the progressives liberals

2018-08-22 03:45:57 UTC

Only term I mentioned the word... uh... it is a habit I am trying to break.

2018-08-22 03:46:06 UTC

Some seriously bad extreme social justice has been permiating wikimedia

2018-08-22 03:46:21 UTC

Since I know there is two terms of liberals... moderate liberals and classical liberals (Closer to actual real liberals.) So I been trying to break that habit.

2018-08-22 03:46:33 UTC


2018-08-22 03:46:33 UTC

I'm also Liberal and agree with Tim on a shockingly *large amount of things, so I personally am very annoyed by that conflation

2018-08-22 03:46:42 UTC

"cultural marxism" went from tracing the line of thought from Marcuse and the Frankfurt school to "a conspiracy theory peddled by alt-right consipriacy theorists like Jordan Peterson"

2018-08-22 03:46:48 UTC

And then it lost it's page.

2018-08-22 03:46:49 UTC

liberals have always been misrepresented in american terminology

2018-08-22 03:47:09 UTC

@Termer care to report on what's up with Wikimedia?

2018-08-22 03:47:15 UTC

That guy's smug fucking face the whole time made me unreasonably angry

2018-08-22 03:47:16 UTC

Let me find the story

2018-08-22 03:47:25 UTC

Found it a long time ago

2018-08-22 03:47:32 UTC

But yea people need to make an organized push for the "internet bill of rights"

2018-08-22 03:47:37 UTC


2018-08-22 03:47:49 UTC

He's like that fucking kid in school who laughs at everything that goes wrong for everyone and then when you try and react he goes to a teacher and cries and whines.

2018-08-22 03:47:49 UTC

Care to link to what is on the "internet bill of rights"

2018-08-22 03:47:50 UTC

dont just say "hey guys heres an idea"

2018-08-22 03:48:16 UTC

I've seen several proposals. The most famous being a coutner legislation by AT&T against Google during the NN debate a couple years ago.

2018-08-22 03:48:42 UTC

Public square has a nice history to it. Prager attempted it as an argument when he sued Google.

2018-08-22 03:48:49 UTC

You think we can get an internet bill of rights when fucking "front hole" is a thing?

2018-08-22 03:48:53 UTC

He made a joke, he explained in his video that it was a joke. England's Judge basically did a Banana republic court on him. They acted like judge, jury, and execution against him. Even the Crown Persecutor said that the court he was prosecuted was illegal in its ruling and actions. Regardless if you hate him or not, he had his rights as a British citizen infringed upon by the British government.

2018-08-22 03:48:53 UTC

Then there's the proposal I just posted.

2018-08-22 03:49:21 UTC

@Beef Taquitos yes. If something happens fast it might be able to make it to Congress before they all break.

2018-08-22 03:49:22 UTC

Wait... I might be wrong, I might be conflaging two things together.

2018-08-22 03:49:29 UTC

yea there is multiple proposals

2018-08-22 03:49:32 UTC

I was thinking about two people.

2018-08-22 03:49:35 UTC

thats part of the problem

2018-08-22 03:49:41 UTC

The Republicans control congress and I have to think they're getting more than a little scared and insulted over this whole thing.

2018-08-22 03:49:42 UTC

My bad... I take back my statement.

2018-08-22 03:49:44 UTC

its not a unified effort

2018-08-22 03:49:45 UTC

The sides get more extreme. I've always seen it as "each and every action has an equal and opposite reaction". There's more people being woken up, but at the same time, there's a lot more people falling for this bs

2018-08-22 03:49:52 UTC

@Dusty Morgan you conflated dank and tommy there

2018-08-22 03:50:04 UTC

Yeah I realized that after I posted it.

2018-08-22 03:50:15 UTC

But it is still wrong how the government treated him.

2018-08-22 03:50:16 UTC

yeah just specifying which ones you mixed up

2018-08-22 03:50:26 UTC

They didn't consider context of his joke, then treated him wrong.

2018-08-22 03:50:34 UTC

Regardless who he is and how much you hate him, they did do him wrong.

2018-08-22 03:50:37 UTC

Yeah, it's sad that this non-justice is so common we're able to mix up instances of them

2018-08-22 03:50:50 UTC

@Lagomaster24 I agree. there's too much fragmentation. But that's a sign people are considering this stuff. It's actually a good sign assuming someone gets something together.

2018-08-22 03:50:53 UTC

miscarriage of justice UK

2018-08-22 03:51:04 UTC

of def

2018-08-22 03:51:07 UTC

its a start

2018-08-22 03:51:14 UTC

Still wondering what you have in mind with the internet bill of rights.

2018-08-22 03:51:22 UTC

So glad I don't live in the uk

2018-08-22 03:51:34 UTC

I really want to network and work for a unified effort with some of these guys

2018-08-22 03:51:45 UTC

Agree entirely.

2018-08-22 03:51:52 UTC

tbh at the moment i havent gotten anything written up

2018-08-22 03:52:15 UTC

Personally, I like the idea of tying common carriage requirements to protection from tort.

2018-08-22 03:52:15 UTC

partly because i want to share ideas with others on it

2018-08-22 03:52:43 UTC

i also dont KNOW everything that could potentially be included

2018-08-22 03:52:43 UTC

Honestly, at this point, I'm of the belief it's too late to write up something new *unless* you are well connected with lawmakers.

2018-08-22 03:53:01 UTC

my main thing is protecting the First Amendment aspect

2018-08-22 03:53:06 UTC

Can agree. but you don't have to know everything.

2018-08-22 03:53:13 UTC

Without doubt.

2018-08-22 03:53:44 UTC

yea i want to network with law makers

2018-08-22 03:53:46 UTC

I'm all for common carriage type regulations. Google, Reddit, Facebook, Netflix, et al pushed Net Neutrality. I think they can eat their own medicine.

2018-08-22 03:54:05 UTC

Write your congressperson I guess

2018-08-22 03:54:23 UTC

I don't think it would have that much impact through.

2018-08-22 03:54:25 UTC

in the middle of a mid term so not yet lol

2018-08-22 03:54:42 UTC

depends on how close i can get to them during the campaign

2018-08-22 03:54:49 UTC

I'm hanging around places like this hoping to get enough people on a common proposal to make a mass campaign.

2018-08-22 03:54:52 UTC

from the grassroots.

2018-08-22 03:54:58 UTC


2018-08-22 03:55:07 UTC

I think waiting for the miderm campaigns is probably too late.

2018-08-22 03:55:15 UTC

Unless we want the dems making the legislation.

2018-08-22 03:55:31 UTC

we do have sane dems oddly enough

2018-08-22 03:55:37 UTC

And considering how close they seem to be pushing censorship, I don't really trust them.

2018-08-22 03:55:41 UTC

we just have to highlight them

2018-08-22 03:55:49 UTC

Yeah, but the leadership and the think tanks aren't.

2018-08-22 03:55:54 UTC

i know

2018-08-22 03:56:00 UTC

thats the main problem

2018-08-22 03:56:04 UTC

Media matters and Shareblue are the ones really pushing the fake news angle.

2018-08-22 03:56:10 UTC

I think we need to get ahead of them.

2018-08-22 03:56:13 UTC


2018-08-22 03:56:26 UTC

its a matter of how

2018-08-22 03:56:53 UTC

I was highly skeptical about the massive mainstream push to keep net neutrality. A friend of mine who was a lawyer told me that it would give more regulation control to the gov't, and from what I had seen, it seemed to be that way. I'm still undecided on the whole net neutrality thing.

2018-08-22 03:56:58 UTC

They *will* pass legislation if the get power. And I'd bet it would be outright fascistic (in the true definition--government and corporations colluding to seize collective power through censorship and law)

2018-08-22 03:56:59 UTC

I think the internet bill of rights should mirror our bill of rights in the way, but adopted to use for internet.
Right to free exchange of ideas without being isolation or prosecution
Right to free expression without fearing for your life
Right to free speech without the fear of censorship
Right to creative enterprise without the fear of being coarse, intimidated, or shutdown
Right to own your own wealth without loosing it due to third parties
Right to free press without fear of being coarse, intimidated, or blackmailed

2018-08-22 03:57:03 UTC

I mean i could start posting publicly tomorrow about something but idk what kinda impact that might have

2018-08-22 03:57:04 UTC

It needs work, but something like that.

2018-08-22 03:57:14 UTC


2018-08-22 03:57:23 UTC

on the first one

2018-08-22 03:57:31 UTC

@Termer I like Pai's stance actually. It's a good philosophy but the NN legislation as written and passed was a huge power grab that could be too easily abused.

2018-08-22 03:57:40 UTC

Thanks Lagomaster.

2018-08-22 03:57:56 UTC

@Lagomaster24 please @ me.

2018-08-22 03:58:04 UTC

isolated or persecuted*

2018-08-22 03:58:24 UTC

Also, look into the Internet Bill of Rights proposed by AT&T. calling for an internet bill of rights will certainly be conflated with their proposal.

2018-08-22 03:58:25 UTC

Basically we hammer it down so there is no wiggle room for misinterruptation by the social media, government, and mainstream news.

2018-08-22 03:58:44 UTC

also look at the post I made earlier from KiA.

2018-08-22 03:59:28 UTC

We have to keep moving, we can't stagnate due to fear of getting it wrong.

2018-08-22 04:01:29 UTC

@Timcast What is your opinion on the internet bill of rights idea? Should we allow regulation which off-chance government can use regulations to control what we see, say, or do? Or should we go towards creating a bill of rights that could allow us to form a agreement with the government and social media corporations that they will allow us these rights, if they infringe upon these rights, they become open to being held accountable to the laws of the nation?

2018-08-22 04:01:36 UTC

Yeah. We're really late to the punch. Really late.

2018-08-22 04:02:00 UTC

And Warner is already drafted up what he wants to do to fight 'fake news.' Very scary stuff from a privacy standpoint.

2018-08-22 04:03:00 UTC

The bill of rights for internet in my opinion should in some way allow us to hold social media and government accountable when they infringe upon the right agreed upon. They won't loose control of their websites and corporations, but they will be held accountable if they infringe our rights.

2018-08-22 04:03:00 UTC

If you wanted to name it, it depends on who you're presenting it to

2018-08-22 04:03:27 UTC

I really think regulations isn't the way to go.

2018-08-22 04:03:54 UTC

For example if you were aiming a press release at the public you could call it a universal shitposting license

2018-08-22 04:04:36 UTC

In congress you could probably call it something like the Anti Censorship Bill

2018-08-22 04:04:53 UTC

Or the Internet Freedom Bill

2018-08-22 04:04:56 UTC

thats pretty american

2018-08-22 04:05:28 UTC

I think European draft idea is designed to milk the social media corporations and foreign citizens for all their worth in money. The way they phrase it scares me.

2018-08-22 04:05:38 UTC

Pay for links?

2018-08-22 04:05:41 UTC

I'd love to help with/sign an internet bill of rights

2018-08-22 04:05:45 UTC

Are you kidding me, people would stop posting links anymore.

2018-08-22 04:05:57 UTC

Linking should be legal without exception

2018-08-22 04:06:07 UTC

I hate how websites like TPB are outlawed

2018-08-22 04:06:13 UTC

because all they carry is links

2018-08-22 04:06:28 UTC

That one stood out to me, because all it is... they are trying to making it impossible to link while gaining as much money they can from it.

2018-08-22 04:07:25 UTC

I notice a lot that the European union are trying to get as much money they can from Social Media companies, making the taxpayers from foreign nations pay for it all.

2018-08-22 04:07:28 UTC

I'd be very scared if linking to things was an offense, because I run a URL shortener

2018-08-22 04:07:43 UTC

and I could get in serious trouble if someone, say, created a redirect to cp

2018-08-22 04:07:56 UTC

Linking/redirecting should carry no liability

2018-08-22 04:08:37 UTC


2018-08-22 04:09:03 UTC

It's a very scary world, I don't need liability to what I *link* to

2018-08-22 04:09:08 UTC

Well that is what they are trying to do.

2018-08-22 04:09:19 UTC

I have grown so much distain towards the European Union as of late.

2018-08-22 04:09:45 UTC

plus, the destination of a link can vary, so if linking to illegal material were illegal, then an easy act of sabotage would be to make a link to legitimate content, then change it to something illegal

2018-08-22 04:10:00 UTC

They are becoming authoritative towards the nations under their umbrella and attacking nations outside that umbrella, namely United States in bid to force them to comply to what they want them to do.

2018-08-22 04:10:14 UTC

I feel bad for nations like Britain for example.

2018-08-22 04:10:31 UTC

If I lived in Britain, I'd be fleeing. It can only get worse from here.

2018-08-22 04:10:39 UTC

European Union started out as a Trade Agreement...

2018-08-22 04:11:05 UTC

There was nothing about the nations under it's umbrella giving up their sovereignty.

2018-08-22 04:11:45 UTC

In addition to what you're allowed to do, there's also the matter of surveilence

2018-08-22 04:11:57 UTC

People seem to confuse the European Union and United Nations as one.

2018-08-22 04:12:04 UTC

Which can't be further from the truth.

2018-08-22 04:12:34 UTC

Britain and the USA have deep data harvesters installed in Internet exchange stations and ISP datacenters

2018-08-22 04:12:36 UTC

United Nations is a group of nations that came together to push back against encroaching Soviet Union.

2018-08-22 04:13:06 UTC

News Flash... Soviet Union is dead and why should we keep United Nations together?

2018-08-22 04:13:22 UTC

I think we should dissolve it and put up treaties in its place.

2018-08-22 04:13:28 UTC

Agreements between nations...

2018-08-22 04:13:54 UTC

I think you're confusing UN with NATO

2018-08-22 04:13:55 UTC

European Union and United Nations is nothing but centralizing power. Centralized powers always become corrupt.

2018-08-22 04:14:01 UTC

The general effect of the EEC, is that the strong nations get brought down, and the weaker nations get a little economic boost

2018-08-22 04:14:03 UTC

I mean Nato.

2018-08-22 04:14:07 UTC

And European Union.

2018-08-22 04:14:26 UTC

NATO stays so that the US can continue to maintain its status as the World Hegemon

2018-08-22 04:14:45 UTC

My point does still stand... centralized power will end up corrupted always and it will be abused to bully the weaker nations.

2018-08-22 04:14:51 UTC

No unified European military is required if they have the US backing them up

2018-08-22 04:15:09 UTC

Nations that try to pull away, always get attacked by the centralized powers that want to keep them under their control.

2018-08-22 04:15:15 UTC

Look what happen to Britain.

2018-08-22 04:15:31 UTC

Without them and the USSR, the US stays as the world hegemon. Having a single hegemon is the best situation in terms of stability.

2018-08-22 04:16:00 UTC

I notice once United States started to get weaken, all hell broke loose.

2018-08-22 04:16:12 UTC

Wait ten years and see what happens

2018-08-22 04:16:24 UTC

Europe wants their own army and isnt scared of russia at all

2018-08-22 04:16:34 UTC

You mean Britain?

2018-08-22 04:16:42 UTC

No, Europe as a whole

2018-08-22 04:16:53 UTC

They want a unified European Military to replace NATO

2018-08-22 04:17:00 UTC

There would be too much red tape, Europe will crumble before they can attack Russia.

2018-08-22 04:17:17 UTC

Nations often unify as a centralized entity for wartime, but often cause trouble when they don't decentralize again. We can see this in many cases throughout history

2018-08-22 04:17:27 UTC

There are two reasons to consolidate military power: defense and conquest

2018-08-22 04:17:47 UTC

Only way that would happen if they dissolve all sovereignty of the nations under its umbrella and take control of all assets available.

2018-08-22 04:17:57 UTC

They're already doing that

2018-08-22 04:18:15 UTC

Free movement zone eliminates control over who they let in

2018-08-22 04:18:33 UTC

I always found that free movement idea to be stupid.

2018-08-22 04:18:33 UTC

EU court is above all nation courts

2018-08-22 04:18:43 UTC

All it takes is one nation out of all them to led bad actors in...

2018-08-22 04:18:48 UTC

What is going to stop them from moving to your nation?

2018-08-22 04:19:22 UTC

A good way to understand the good intentions of centralized government is to read the federalist papers

2018-08-22 04:19:33 UTC

The road to hell is paved in good intentions.

2018-08-22 04:19:37 UTC

But the unforseen consequences come later, mostly after war

2018-08-22 04:19:45 UTC

When it's not needed as much

2018-08-22 04:20:01 UTC

Centralizing power always ends up corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolute.

2018-08-22 04:20:16 UTC

So many quotes from founding fathers and influential figures really hit home on the issues.

2018-08-22 04:20:25 UTC

That is why history is important in my eyes.

2018-08-22 04:21:10 UTC

I actually take issue with the ratification of the constitution (of course not all of it), but the previous constitution was pretty good, other than the inability to unify for war

2018-08-22 04:21:12 UTC

There is one good thing about these clashes... it is forcing people to research.

2018-08-22 04:21:43 UTC

There is a silver-lining in everything.

2018-08-22 04:21:54 UTC

I just hope we learn from it before it is too late.

2018-08-22 04:22:31 UTC

I think all americans should draw their own conclusions from the strife that came from the constitution

2018-08-22 04:22:33 UTC

Have I been a good debater? Think I fit in here?

2018-08-22 04:22:44 UTC

I'd say you've been a good debater

2018-08-22 04:22:53 UTC


2018-08-22 04:23:00 UTC

It has been a while since I debated...

2018-08-22 04:23:04 UTC

I feel rusty.

2018-08-22 04:23:28 UTC

It is hard to find an healthy debate lately thanks to the atmosphere as of lately.

2018-08-22 04:23:56 UTC

I've always found that there are places where you can be honest, but not usually in the public

2018-08-22 04:24:07 UTC

I got into a debate with an Antifa member... he plugged his ears to all evidence I showed him and kept calling me a Nazi sympathizer. :\

2018-08-22 04:24:29 UTC

I've never had the chance to really be in the field

2018-08-22 04:24:34 UTC

He used all caps and insulted me, calling me names and accusing me being racist/fascists.

2018-08-22 04:24:35 UTC

EU is trying to be a Federation when it can only really function as a Confederation imo

2018-08-22 04:24:49 UTC

Well I wasn't there in person, it was over the internet.

2018-08-22 04:25:02 UTC

There are always people like that

2018-08-22 04:25:16 UTC

If you look in newsroom youll find a vox article

2018-08-22 04:25:39 UTC

In another server someone posted it and said "if you dont support this you are a lowkey fascist and high key asshole"

2018-08-22 04:26:00 UTC

OMG vox... those people are so freaking bias. I take everything they say with a grain of salt. I can trust them as far as I throw them, which isn't far because I can't physically pick them up.

2018-08-22 04:26:11 UTC

Followed by "im not willing to entertain any arguments against it"

2018-08-22 04:27:03 UTC

I can't stand when people ignore arguments

2018-08-22 04:27:06 UTC

and not refute them

2018-08-22 04:27:19 UTC

I have one website that I have protected that allows me to debate.

2018-08-22 04:27:22 UTC

if you can refute my argument and give me a better one, *I will change my mind*

2018-08-22 04:27:33 UTC

I am very hesitate to introduce people to it.

2018-08-22 04:27:42 UTC

What do you mean, do you own it?

2018-08-22 04:27:51 UTC

No... it is a website I treasure.

2018-08-22 04:28:06 UTC

All forms of debate ranging from conspiracy theories to United States politics.

2018-08-22 04:28:15 UTC

Basically people can debate about what they want.

2018-08-22 04:28:34 UTC

I like that.

2018-08-22 04:28:36 UTC

Very few new members who are very hysterical, but they are usually ignored for actual people who debate.

2018-08-22 04:29:26 UTC

It sets itself up as a conspiracy theory website, but it actually holds a lot of debates.

2018-08-22 04:29:38 UTC

I think that basically makes it the perfect place.

2018-08-22 04:30:41 UTC

@Timcast Oh for the original reason I came here. Thanks Tim for trying to be the unbiased voice in the sea of bias voices with agendas.

2018-08-22 04:31:58 UTC

Tim genuinely cares about his work and I appreciate that

2018-08-22 04:32:25 UTC

True. He also admits he doesn't have all the answers

2018-08-22 04:32:31 UTC

Which I appreciate

2018-08-22 04:32:41 UTC

I appreciate it too. It is hard to find voices like him who puts aside his political views to report the news.

2018-08-22 04:33:05 UTC

Doesn't mean he has to get rid of them, but he sets them aside to give us the objective facts.

2018-08-22 04:40:02 UTC

Have any of you heard about that EU senator who wants to ban encryptions?

2018-08-22 04:40:04 UTC


2018-08-22 04:40:53 UTC

Sounds like he is all about control.

2018-08-22 04:41:06 UTC

He doesn't like the fact he can't control something that has a encryptions.

2018-08-22 04:41:38 UTC

Also that opens his nation up to being attacked by foreign nations, because it will allow foreign militaries to monitor communications between their nation's forces.

2018-08-22 04:41:45 UTC

Unless he only wants to ban it for private sector.

2018-08-22 04:42:21 UTC

God the EU makes me sick

2018-08-22 04:42:45 UTC

Good luck to you boys in Europe, I'm just gonna stay stateside

2018-08-22 04:42:53 UTC

The UN makes me sick

2018-08-22 04:42:58 UTC

Get on my level

2018-08-22 04:43:01 UTC

Actually not sick

2018-08-22 04:43:03 UTC


2018-08-22 04:43:25 UTC

UN and EU both feel like they becoming authoritative in nature.

2018-08-22 04:44:34 UTC


2018-08-22 04:44:41 UTC

a little late for that language

2018-08-22 05:25:30 UTC


2018-08-22 05:26:40 UTC
2018-08-22 05:26:58 UTC


2018-08-22 05:27:29 UTC


2018-08-22 05:29:25 UTC


2018-08-22 05:55:15 UTC
2018-08-22 05:56:23 UTC

yeah that sucks for sure

2018-08-22 05:56:25 UTC

anyone here in HI?

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