thats like a micro government that is consentual

but, @vlnc.co, that is all sorted out in the market economy via explicit contracts and stipulations, etc

you will WANT to negotiate some rights away in return for certain privileges in the real world

@zutt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvGBinfaeJY

like i give up the right to play obnoxiously loud music in my neighborhood in return for the others to agree to the same terms in the homeowner association

it all just boils down to consent and explicit contracts, my friends

"consent of the governed" etc ..... its like we try and masquerade under this idea already but never really bother to think about it deeper

there would still be a *de facto* government in a pure free market economy bcuz of all the contracts that are layered upon each other voluntarily and consentually

a lot of security firms would be run by insurance companies... etc bcuz they have an incentive to keep things peaceful and prevent damages and costs, etc

And then firearms manufacturers would be run by the security firms, or run by the military, like they used to be

PEACE officers... bring them back!

all possible under private (consentual) governance

i like your picture poptarts

lol, thanks ✌

anybody could become their own private firearms manufacturer though... as Cody Wilson has demonstrated .....

Bourdain went to a family that did that in his trip to West VA

RIP btw

they made auto capable ones too

obviously only accessible by the government and PMCs

theres a ton of really good content that the Mises Institute covers on their channel though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiFWiGdLwE8

just one example

@Arch-Fiend that was very simplistic view

i will take armies of Dale Brown clones over modern police thuggary manufactoring vicitimless crimes any day!

I think tl dr had some personal conflict with sargon before

"numaricly the effect of these people joining the party has seemingly done very little to increase the partys size so far, the party is already very very small relitive to the rest of the partys. its no surprise people who have attention from all over the world have only a fraction of that attention in a single country even if its the largest fraction (though i dont actually think it is the largest fraction for most of them besides maybe dankula), also their attitude when joining the party is in poor spirit"
-simplistic view

His saltyness shows towards the end

https://www.youtube.com/user/misesmedia/search?query=private+government+police+security

well guess the subject has moved on! lol gg

Its the influencer part which matter not the number of new memebers

Ukip is ignored by mainstream media

And they need to get their message to ppl if they want to get their numbers back

Having ppl like sorgon and others shill for them is great way

New members help, but I agree that having people with large social media followings in their ranks is probably the larger boon

gotta get awareness up numbers come second

Like sargon just released hour long interview with baten and while i could object to lots of things there and it had terrible sound quality

people like sargon and dankula dont actually agree with most things ukip is about

It can be shared now

though pjw might

@Poptarts well either i misunderstood your original argument or it seems like youve changed your argument; before in the water example you were arguing for absolute ownership, but now seem to agree that there should be limits in some cases. the main difference seems to be that you are for private governance vs what we have today. one could argue that a democratic govt is also built on "contracts that are layered upon each other voluntarily and consentually" though.

Well i think ukip does not know what it stands for atm

iirc Sargon and Dankula want to push for changes to UKIP

So they have chance to influence it to a degree

which may be easier if they are having identity issues anyway

yea

From what I understand, the goal with all of them joining UKIP was a soft coup

Move towards internet freedoms is great news

Rather than founding their own party

And ukip never cared for those before

yea

i think that sargon is mostly interested in coopting ukip for his own goals consitering liberalistism, justice democrats, and kekistan didint go his way

did you watch the interview sargon just released?

I did watch part of it

Its cheaper to coopt a pre-existing party than to create a new one

thats true

One could argue Democratic Socialists are attempting to Coopt the Democrats

Baten would never get similar interview from anyone else

Thats why i say sargon has helped ukip already

One could argue, but the Democrats seem to be co-opting the DSA's policies already

but i beleive anyone whos not happy with sargon being in ukip is justified if at best he changes the party into his own ideal rather than what people who origenally joined ukip wanted it to be

@vlnc.co absolute ownership as the baseline, but any agreement can be negotiated with anybody with any contracts to change that .... the point is that i am arguing for explicit consent for anything property related

Thats true the Dems might be doing it to them moreso

ooo I was kinda sorta not really but kinda mentioned in tim's new video 😛

i dont think ukip is the kind of party that likes the methods of "success by any means nessicary"

under the label "people on my discord" 😛

Dems are lost

no one who makes you pay to become a member would be

Rn in gb ukip has unique chance to claim back to beeing 3rd most influential party

Because of how brexit is going

i mean, if i open up a water store with newly purified water from my innovative inventions..... and i want to sell the water.... im not goign to be like... NOPE I OWN THE WATER .... I AM ABSOLUTE OWNER

But they need to get their message out

And possibly even organize some demonstrations

Sargon and his band could play impprtant role in all of this

Dems will stay relevant but they are pushing further left jsut as the Repubs did when the Tea Party essentially took over

the limits need to be stipulated and consented to in order for it to be a legitimate limit on ownerships.... obvious ppl can be co-owners of private property

It could also end as nothing

Main reason i want to have a Moderate Party lol

As i said its all open

teh democrat socialist american workers party

tbh I wish Sargon and Co luck

I think we should all get together to found the Authoritarian party (just because the Libertarian Party already exists)

demsoc of oceana

Im just glad they are getting into the thick of it now

no though... democracy is just mob rule..... ochlocracy .. it does not depend on your consent

Dont remind me of the 1984 parallels lol

@Poptarts right but in a micro private governance, what if there is a tribe that lives downstream that also has water tech but your tribe is polluting that stream with your tech? some problems may indeed be better resolved in a micro govt with greater consensus and consent, but some decisions have macro-effects. such as pollution

what in the fuck is an ochlocracy

they already got the logo

And any Authoritarian party candidate for President should run "for Dictator"

I know they do it creeps me out

Monarchy

lel

I dont think people run for "dictator" 😛

they just take it

they do, they just dont say they do

i dont think its a silver bullet at all

yes, there would be naturally emerging systems of dealing with hierarchical disputes, resolutions, and arbitration

Dems have a chance to keep to many far leftist out but they are running out of time

I don't mean they should actually try to become a dictator, I just mean that should be their campaign message

"I'm running for Dictator"

lol

come out like Phil Swift "I sawed our country in half!"

imagine voters just saying "hey at least theyre honest"

private gov doesnt necessarily have to be micro... but would evolve into the de facto macro government eventually

it would still be decentralized, but it would only appear to be centralized by that point bcuz of the natural evolution of solving problems

The Ephebians believed that every man should have the vote\*. Every five years someone was elected to be Tyrant, provided he could prove that he was honest, intelligent, sensible, and trustworthy. Immediately after he was elected, of course, it was obvious to everyone that he was a criminal madman and totally out of touch with the view of the ordinary philosopher in the streets looking for a towel. And then five years later they elected another one just like him, and really it was amazing how intelligent people kept on making the same mistakes.

\*Provided that he wasn't poor, foreign, nor disqualified by reason of being mad, frivolous, or a woman

^ Terry Pratchet, *Small Gods*

yknow in the UK woman have always had the right to vote

the only qualifier before 1928 was that you own property

The Romans elected by lottery

I'm pretty sure they didn't. Do you have a source for that?

here... im goign to send a link to an article about what is and is not valid contracts ..... really all boils down to contracts in the end

not on hand, but they did it for a while

https://www.lawdepot.com/blog/what-makes-a-contract-invalid/

sorry 1918

read this article .... we already have basically the conventions of private law/governance... it just needs to be realized

one problem i see with doing away with our govt is that historically the way of resolving disputes between tribes often results in endemic warfare and subversion, stunting a society's ability to grow and thrive relative to the rest of the world, leading it to be susceptible to being conquered

Of course, I think it also depends on whether you speak of the Roman Empire or the Roman Republic

after 1918 they introduced the representation of people act, which meant you no longer just have to own property to vote

bcuz many institutions (states, nations, municipalities, etc) dont comply as valid contractors

but how to we ensure valid contracts on the macro scale?

without a government

@vlnc.co its not about doing away with government.... i always hound on ancaps about this..... bcuz you CAN consent to being governed in a government, right?

then 10 years later in 1928 they introduced the equal franchise act... because the original 1918 act said that although no-one needs to own property anymore, women had to be at least 30... so the 1928 act made it equal

what if you dont consent?

there are already international contracting laws in place, @vlnc.co, theyre called UCC codes, etc

https://www.lawdepot.com/blog/what-makes-a-contract-invalid/

read this article

if you dont consent, its not a valid contract, simple

unless you had already given up rights via contracts beforehand

i meant what if i dont consent to being governed by a government in the world of private governance

then youre not legally bound to obey the dictates of the contracts becuz its not a valid agreement

you can go off and homestead somewhere off the grid if you so please lol

yes but what if i still live within the confines of what the government holds jurisdiction over. lets say i was born there and dont want to move

basically... in this system... you will have an explicit contract or "certificate of citizenship" in the US

bcuz citizenship now basically is just a social contract, a make-believe contract (not a valid contract)

all im saying is.... there are contracting laws and conventions already in place that would handle all this stuff

https://www.lawdepot.com/blog/what-makes-a-contract-invalid/

read this article and think about the so called "social contract"

the thing is .... currently "the government" is a monopoly on the initation of force AKA the state

but there would be no central authority in a nation of decentralized legal systems.... so you would have many more choices as a consumer

cuz im talking about a *polycentric* government rather than a monopolistic govt

with true checks and balances

where the votes of others arent forced upon you arbitrarily by mob rule .... and where you cannot force your will (democratically) onto others either

just think about it though.... in order for a contract to be legally valid here and now as it currently stands, EVERY single point/requirement of the contract needs to be satisfied, otherwise its a null-and-void, invalid contract .... illegitimate

anyways.... im getting burnt out.... feel free to PM me if you want to talk more tho

but we both agreed that there needs to be some form of macro governance because some problems are macro scale. and enforcing the laws of that macro govt requires some form of centralized authority (i.e., preventing several disparate private legal systems across the land from polluting shared natural resources). if you are a polluting tribe, you will have votes from non-polluting tribes forced upon you "arbitrarily by mob rule". i dont see how the macro governance in a private system would be more benevolent than the macro governance today.

ya same need to get some work done

nice chat tho 👍

good talking with you so far about this tho, is still enjoyable for a friendly debate 😇

thanks, you too, anytime

❤

😉

i hear your arguments though..... theyre valid concerns, but i still disagree with some of yoru premise that "macro govt requires some form of centralized authority" bcuz that is the beauty of emerging systems and spontaneous order

if you just take a look at computer technology.... just look at USB standards..... no centralized macro state authority dictating these standards... they have all arisen in common interest by tech companies and consumers ... that is an example of how emergent systems work... they EMERGE from the primordial waters of chaos and evolve into more structured order organically

these systems must *emerge* from the bottom up through *macro* voluntary human interactions.... not be imposed from the top down autocratically by self-serving politicians is what im saying

thats the invisible hand at work, and how it sorts everything out in the end..... nobody knew what would be on the other side of abolishing slavery ... and there were tons of doomsayers ("who will pick the cotton? somebody needs to pick the cotton! we'll all starve to death"), but just look at how the market solved all the problems with farming technology, etc. so it was a win-win for everybody to abolish the immoral practice of slavery

anyways..... lol 🤓

guess should have been moved to the debate thread!

let's say this is something I should know

in discord is there a way to jump to alerts

dont worry about them, it was a spammer

ahh

@LotheronPrime for future reference, look for the @ symbol. On mobile (andriod at least) it's under the upper left menu for changing servers, down by your name. Browser is usually in the upper right somewhere I think. That will show you recent mentions so you can jump to them quickly

that's what I was looking for thanks

knew there had to be a way

that's what I was looking for thanks

knew there had to be a way

that's what I was looking for thanks

:shirt: Check out **Tim Pool's TeeSpring Merch**:
<https://teespring.com/stores/timcast>

:dollar: Support **Tim Pool** on Patreon (exclusive rewards available):
<https://www.patreon.com/timcast>

I I I
I | I _

....that shit is imprinted into my consciousness

the fact that it's a meme.... is the meme

and for so long

It's weird that it blew up so much recently. Are we going to see people saying "thanks doc" everywhere in a few years?

Note to Tim: Niger is not pronounced the same as the beginning of Nigeria. Say Niger as if you were French.

can y'll imagine if this was released today

https://youtu.be/wCgx8zM3woQ

2011 was a wonderful time

I was never a fan of that song specifically

but imagine

https://twitter.com/FAIRImmigration/status/1014924425282621446?s=19

oh boy

she just torpedo the DNC

*aw shit steve ditko's dead*

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/steve-ditko-dead-spider-man-creator-was-90-1125489

Damn.

Are traps gay tho

Here we go

Not gay if you didn't blew the cover

What hemisphere are you in?

Western I think

Traps are gay.

Sup my dudes

im a trap

its pretty gay

it's only gay if feelings touch..

it isn't gay if you say "no homo" between thrusts

i have a tattoo that says no homo

does that count

yes

you basically can't be gay now, smart girl

genius

Who cares, buttholes are all the same

what about animal buttholes? is that the same as well

Well, the co-creator of one of my most favorite characters has died, Steve Ditko, never had the big public personality that Stan has & had kind of been a ghost for past years, but it tragic to see one of the most important comicbook creators partly responsible of one of the most important comicbook characters has died.

Theyve organized the server more but the channels that non patrons have access to are broad

and thats honestly probs where most of the members are so it gets congested

Ah, yeah

I mean, he probably has what, 1000, 1500 people on there already? at least?

although i think Vee and ShortFatOtaku do talk to the plebs ocassionaly lol

yea

i think so

Yeah, so if he only has a little more organization than there is here, it's gonna be impossible to follow a conversation

I remember when people got into heated discussions in IRC

the Patrons have access to other channels

idk if thats a thing here tbh

lol

i have yet to commit money to anyone

I think Tim set up patron-only channels

or JDM_WAAAT

or somebody

i set it up

@DeusVolt @Uksio @Deleted User @missdanger @Senny @Tohob not gay if you dont make eye contact

i bet they use them to talk shit about us plebs

does anyone have questions about how this server is set up @Revan @Lagomaster24 ?

This server represents monarchy and we need to tear it down !

Not really, we were just discussing well-organized and poorly organized servers

Just curious if there are Patron only channels mostly

tim is a closet monarchist

i would assume yea

closet monarchist lol

thats okay.... patrons should have their own channel privileges IMO ... just makes sense

yea

Welp

Theres an activer shooter on las vegas blvd

Well, shit.

http://news3lv.com/news/local/heavy-police-presence-reported-at-town-square

Another one?

At town square

oh noes

did the cops ever found out anything about the last one ?

taking all bets on who gets wrongly blamed this time

Idk

Who's the guy 4chan always tries to get the media to blame? I'm betting him.

I hope its nothing like what happened at the bolevard mall earlier this year

He can't keep getting away with this

SAM HYDE IS THE SHOOTER

Lol