general
Discord ID: 463054787336732683
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big oil is a single corporation?
you just listed industries
Some pharmaceutical companies
on drugs that only they make
maerkets whre thre is only comcast
AS IF there arent smaller businesses in those industries lol
I thought big oil was a giant man made of oil
Poptarts, you're dismissing what are potentially valid counter-arguments on technicalities
again..... you cannot prescribe this an effect of capitalism bcuz of all the lobbying and privileges that corps like comcast get unfairly from the government .... thats an effect corporate welfare youre describing
do you think water should be privatized?
the telecom industry is SO heavily regulated by the govt that you cannot point to how it appears today as a phenomonen of capitalism bcuz its not
Technically, water is already privatized in some areas
chicken and egg right? they only get privileges from govt after they got huge. even without govt inteference the barrier to entry in building a telecom network is massive. early adoper / network effects wins
^
you really need to think thru this stuff.... if invent some device that synthesises water, or of i go off an invest TONS of money to purify say SEA WATER..... of course that would be my private property
not to mention that you already BUY water in one way or another
bottled water
nobody would be entitled to take pure water from that that i have created with my own labor
and the "public" water system of course... tap water, etc
as if you dont already have to buy it!
purifying sea water makes the water yours? who did you buy the sea water from?
we also have the whole "raw water" thing
nobody owned the sea water to begin with ... it was a raw material that was transformed and i added value to it
value is added by the market though
the real question is .... what claim would anybody else have on sea water that i have purified?
Nobody technically owns any water. What you're paying for is the ease with which you can get the water, due to plumbing, pumps, etc.
so if you took raw sea water, bottled it, and called it "authentic indian ocean water, not for drinking" and could sell it
that would be yours?
i believe that if you can produce your own water, like powering your home yourself. it is effectively yours
your body is something like 80% water
ownership is an agreement,
If i pulled a gun and just took what you have, you wouldn't own it anymore ๐
if you dont own that water, who does?
my body, my water
Yeah, but the water in your body gets cycled in and out as you consume more and then go to the bathroom
so if I grab a bottle of your water and drink it without paying for it, I don't owe you anything
It's not the same water in you from birth to death
because it's my water now
but we're not talking about the water in your body
that would be stealing.... if i purified shit water .... bottled it, and you stole it... ya that would be stealing..... ? lol
Poptarts brought it up
to avoid getting too theoretical, here's a good concrete example:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/nestl%C3%A9-faces-renewed-criticism-as-b-c-drought-continues-1.3145929
somebody else started asking about "privatizing" water .... AS IF ppl dont own their own bottles of water!! LOL
Yeah, but what you own is the bottle, not the water
as if ppl dont *already* own ... etc
You drink the water, you piss it out
Nestle bottling groundwater that it does not pay for and then selling it
lol says who?
thats not true at all
of course you own the water within the bottle
So you're saying that your body has retained *every single drop* of water you've ever consumed
the question is not "is it possible to own water"
no, i have never said that at all
Then how can you own water?
it is impossible to own water
looks... .the water in your fridge or my giant water bottles is PRIVATE
facts
nobody can lawfully take that from me ... its private property already
Ok so this isnt water but i talked to a guy who has placed solar panels on his home and his home has effectively become a power station, in exchange for providing power to his neighborhood he gets tax cuts and the major power company has to pay HIM for his provision of power or something like that, he didnt give me details.
i told you guys, Ownership is an agreement,
If someone disagrees, then you have to either claim it through sovereign right, or release ownership
the state is meant to protect your right to private property (police)
ive heard about that, Lago
so let's say you pour your water into a bowl and it evaporates. who do you sue?
its impossible to own a bowl
no, you dont need somebody else permission to create your own property/value with your own labor
I said "a bowl," I didn't imply you owned the bowl
it doesnt depend on the agreement of others for you to exercise absolute property rights
property rights come from God?
see Poptarts the issue is there's no cosmic property registry that tracks ownership of everything
its impossible to own god
nobody, hearts... nobody stole it from me... it evaporated bcuz of poor management
so obviously jsut gets diluted back into the environment
You can create resources, you can't Own them unless you lay claim to it
I can take it from you, if i take it you don't own it anymore
its impossible to steal
for anybody to extract again and use
so it becomes ownerless then
you can't own what you create unless you enforce your claim on it
have you ever seen There Will Be Blood?
"I drink your milkshake" etc
But the thing is he OWNs the solar panels and thus the power station that his home has effectively become, it is not controlled by the government but by agreeing with the government to use his panels to provide power in the area he gains benefits from it. I dont know if this is something he HAS to do or he has a choice though.
i prefered the more accurate, Its Impossible For There To Be Blood
There will be blood Maybe
Nobody Can Own Blood
pretty sure i "own" my blood
Nobody can own nothing, but at the same time, nobody can own anything
We have officially proven that ownership is a social construct
congratulations
lol
nobody said there needs to be a "cosmic property registry" in order to have private property rights
where the commies right lol
you said property ownership is absolute
me ni๐ ฑ๐ ฑas
its possible to own stuff, calm down
who owns Palestine?
depends who you ask
the jews do, sooner or later
Asking the BIG questions lol
maybe that example was too controversial
Who owns the Earth?
did you know all the land in the British commonwealth is technically owned by the Royal Family?
The Lizards
the question is not about property rights ... but WHO lays claim on them
tbh i think it sucks that we cant talk about the Israel/Palestine thing cause the fear of being called anti-semite
including Australia and Canada
bcuz commies just want the property rights in THEIR little greedy hands
Earth owns itself
the earth is in common ownership across all countries that enforce their borders
I'm not afraid of talking about it at all Lago
ownership is a social construction obviously
its negotiated at all stages
Netanyahu is a war criminal and Israel's occupation is a crime in progress
I mean we arent here but i mean more politicians and such
we literally pay taxes so the country can maintain its grasp on the land it has, and maintain order so each person can maintain its property within the land
Commies want to give property to the State
I remember when a Canadian doctor was shot by an Israeli sniper at the border while trying to help other people who had been shot by Israeli soldiers during the protest of the US embassy
because they apparently trust it to use said property well
and I still know fellow Canadians who thought that was perfectly OK
i said that property ownership SHOULD be absolute... not that it is necessarily as it is.... isnt that the point of "owning" something? if someone else could lay claim upon it and steal it w/o recourse (like the government) .... then obv property rights are not being respected
nah it should not be absolute
its possible to own stuff illegitametly
well Poptarts you're saying it "should" be and many agree with you, in fact enough do agree with you that we created laws that allow people to own things
IDF does some fucked up shit in the name of counter terrorism
but how deep into the ground and up into the sky would you own?
i love how we debate here insted of <#463068752725016579> but thats a very discord type thing
so who owns each and every one of you?
lol
do you not believe in self-ownership?
It's because the conversation started here
and nobody proposed to move it
God owns me
mhm
I own myself
My mind owns me, but I'm not sure what owns my mind
god owes
me
How much does god owe you?
tree fitty
_inb4 "about tree-fiddy"_
hopefully God doesn't owe you a cute anime girl
yeah, if you don't "own" something legitimately ... youre not the real owner lol
*hides*
called it late lol
yeah, just a fraction of a second
ye
there are constantly legal disputes over who the "real owner" of things is
the law settles that matter
it depends on the circumstances
the clutchness
which goes to show that ownership, while a good idea, is still something that is socially constructed
you can steal something and own it in many places
that's not to say it's a bad thing
"owning" something illegitimately contradicts the idea of ownership ... just bcuz someone seizes something or steal something from someone else doesnt make them the legit owner
cease the means of reproduction
if you are trapped in a room with a king and a president and you have a gun, and they do not, you own everything in that room
b-b-but m'social constructs are Patriarchy lel
you should read an old law case called Armory v. Delamirie
cytos, that's not necessarily true
it's interesting and talks about how ownership takes place
my social constructs are iron golums
If the king or the president you're trapped with can overpower you, they're the most powerful person in the room
we dont create laws that "allow" ppl to own things.... but laws that PROTECT ppl's property
ownership depends on enforceability
and therefore they own everything in that room
iron golums lol
anyways I'm gonna go home, work is over
peace out Timcast chat
20,000gp component cost
later
gonna drive home in my socially constructed car to my socially constructed home and drink some water that the government allows me to drink
its worth it though
<:sgtkilHi:400922883494379530> bye
cannot follow all of your comments, everyone... sorry ... this is getting too high volume chat lol
if there is no police force prepared to take shit back for you, contraband is legitimate ownership, as long as the new owner can defend it where you could not
oh, don't forget about the socially constructed pipes that take the water to your socially constructed home
What if WATER is a social construct
the pipes do exist, but they are just resting in the ground, the idea that the water company owns them is just agreed upon with the state authority that can enforce said ownership due to its law enforcement
forget about water, what if the immortal soul is a human construct?
water! huuuua! what is it good for? absolutely nothing!
lel
Did someone spam the everyone @ earlier?
i dunno if ownership is always "absolute". i think the limits start to appear when your ownership negatively affects other people's lives. if you buy a concert speaker system for your house and live in a neighborhood with other houses nearby, playing it full blast at 3am should probably be restricted somehow
yes
but they are dead now
@everynyan
were they killed?
banhammer
dieded
peace, @Heartsโข , good chatting
ah
of smiting
+6
bye
russia poisoned them with novichok
fuckin shit has this place turned into the fuckin dankula server or what? 16 @s ? really?
There was a spammer
Shocked that JDM would forget to disable that.
at least there aint scat porn
Spammers gone
It wasn't \@everyone, which is disabled
tim teleported behind them and was like *tips beanie* "nothing personal kid"
@here then?
The spammer was \@'ing every individual role
!rank
mini tim lmao
apparently its not a feature yet to disable at mentioning roles. vote for dis: https://feedback.discordapp.com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land/suggestions/19469011-allow-only-admins-moderators-to-mention-certain-ro
!rank
with a lil mini beanie
go to <#463057082740899841>
Vic, it still all boils down to property rights becuz theyre still disturbing others' domains
would be nice if !rank went to your dms insted of showed a big box on the server
right, can someone tell me what exactly levels and ranks are/do?
It would be nice, but I think you're also able to ask the bot for somebody else's rank
!rank @Arch-Fiend
in which case, it's nice for other people to be able to see
also, nope. if it didnt show this yall on desktop wouldnt see the gay shit I set as my avatar
plus... in the .. ahem .... real world ... there are these things called homeowner associations that you can look as little micro governments that would handle things like that @vlnc.co
at rank 10 you get the "reguler" role and with that role you can embed links in <#398858182455459853>
wait not reguler, you get normie
yes i agree but now you no longer have absolute control over what is technically your own property. i agree that property rights are good, but dunno if it is or should be absolute
Rank 10 = Normie
Rank 20 = Regular
Rank 30 = Veteran
Rank 40 = Contributor
it is not absolute, there are things you can not own, and stuff some people should not own
i dont expect to be rank #1 for very long, i was just very active the day mini tim was added to the server
agreed
things you can not own: people
things you should not own: recreational nukes
^
So lads
Yeah, you're only ahead of zutt by about 450XP right now Arch-Fiend
unless we have a bombass conversation in <#464233883303673868>
im kinda burned out on politics atm
but also frig off prescribing me morals is a breach of the nap
_has the leaderboard up_
Are you watching the brexit show ?
>in anticipation of you retaliating for me violating your NAP, thus you violating my NAP, i recreationally nuke you
Frankly if sargon and is ukip friends play this right they could easily get back to over 10% national poling
yes, @vlnc.co, that is the point.... it was voluntary agreement that you made to give up some of the property rights in exchange to live in a particular homeowner association
well lets say the sound system is so loud that it can pollute a neighboring hoa
@>Cytos, de lieve goede synth i agree, such as intellectual property rights ๐
shouldnt there be laws to restrict that from happening too?
the point about property rights is that you are free to contract and modify the terms with other individuals .... the glory of voluntaryism!
but the neighboring hoa had no contractual agreement with you
Sometimes the municipality also has some rules, under which every hoa falls
If your sound "pollutes" a neighboring hoa, then you're likely playing your music louder than the municipality allows
in which case, the police are legally allowed to come to you and stop you
that would all depends on the rest of the ppl... if they dont care for whatever reason... why should there be laws against that if they all explicitly agreed to ngaf about loud music
Well if they all agreed to not care, then none of them would call the cops
on the other hand... just think about it from a homeownership association point of view
yeah, and i think that's a good thing. im arguing that certain limitations to ownership that includes everyone in a juristiction isnt always a bad thing.
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