What remains static is the scientific method.

<https://quillette.com/2018/09/07/academic-activists-send-a-published-paper-down-the-memory-hole/>

If i rub my hands to create friction -> heat

Its not gonna change as a scientific principle for anotehr 200 years atleast

The body of scientific knowledge changes all the time - as it should.

Don't be so confident in the invincibility of science as a pursuit of truth.

And historical circumstances impacted many discoveries. I think it is likely that our scientific knowledge might look very different if we started over.

But the scientific method would not change.

this entire discussion

Atkins, how about that thing recently where someone quoted things from "Mein Kampf" but cuz it was pro-feminism it got accepted by peer-review? 😛

`He picked up the children’s history book and looked at the portrait of Big Brother which formed its frontispiece. The hypnotic eyes gazed into his own. It was as though some huge force were pressing down upon you – something that penetrated inside your skull, battering against your brain, frightening you out of your beliefs, persuading you, almost, to deny the evidence of your senses. In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. And what was terrifying was not that they would kill you for thinking otherwise, but that they might be right. For, after all, how do we know that two and two make four? Or that the force of gravity works? Or that the past is unchangeable? If both the past and the external world exist only in the mind, and if the mind itself is controllable – what then?`

Science as a truth can be twisted, science as a fact can not

Also, I think scientific research in abstract is amoral, it's not concerned with the effects of this research on human society, which can be very very destructive.
So scientific research and work has to be nested within a wider framework of morality and ethics, one possible way of deriving that morality is religion.
Ethical and Moral insight is necessary when it comes to Scientific innovation because some breakthroughs can radically tear the society apart.

The scientific method, the process of science, is not the current state of scientific knowledge.

problem with that wol is that any interpretation of science fact is tainted

You are correct Stormtrooper -> Case 1: Social Media

Everything in science is wrong, because we will likely always refine our models further.

and pure facts are dunes, ever shifting and impossible to work with

if you can re-test it under the exact same circumstances, 1000 times without fail

you have a fact

jup thats your truth right there

It is likely that nothing in science is perfect. All our models are approximations - but they are the best approximations we have been able to come up with.

i actually fear what leftists will do now

because they think the right did this

@Dr.Wol you have a fact if you have a modernist epistemology

Yes, I have called that as soon as the story broke.

I would argue the same is true in religion

i would argue that the same is true for your mom gay lmao

Religion is not designed to be tested.

if you have a post-modern epistemology you merely have the dominant power structure

Many religions are designed to be tested.

You can apply the scientific method to religion, but then you will find that our scientific models are better.

Philosophy is questiosn that may never be answered
Religion is answered that may never be questioned

this is a witty sentance without much substantive meaning

#magabomber is trending

And that works for "truth" Atkins, but for facts it doesn't

Thats why Trans people systematically outperform women in sports,

Men are superior physically, that is a fact,
And no amount of "I want to believe" will change it

You can go to a Buddhist temple and ask the same question to every Brahman there and each one would give you their own answer.

as a centrist i am only half religious, obviously

Yes, let's stick with that exmaple.

Male and female relative accomplishment.

According to the scientific method, we collect observations.

We are reasonably sure because we have observed a lot of men and women.

But it's not impossible we haven't made the right observations, but as the number of observations increase, them all being wrong becomes very unlikely.

@Dr.Wol you need to learn to step outside the modernist worldview because your enemies live outside its confines.

However, it does not change the fact that it remains a stochastic process.

you need to learn to understand how they think

otherwise all your facts and logic and reason will fail you

In a way, everything about science is a series of statistical observations.

sounds like liberalism to me

So nothing is ever proven.

Not proven about reality at least.

You can make proofs by formulating axioms and rules of inference.

But the axioms are only as accurate as the observations of reality they match.

@Atkins they will not, and you're talking shit,

You're arguing about the fact that those in power make the rules,
But those in power can't change reality,

They can only compel me to say what they say
But they can't change reality

these are people who believe, if not explicitly than implicitly, that the world we inhabit is merely a consensual hallucination, and if all participants believe something it becomes fact

it doesn't

thats why Truth is not the same as Fact

you and i believe that

they don't

and they have power

(((they)))

it doesn't matter, Facts are static, you can't change them

Truth is in the eye of the beholder

I don't like the distinction between truth and fact.

truth is whatever the one holding the gun says it is

https://twitter.com/pardesseleh/status/1055164796495192065?s=12

Facts are that if you pour half a dozen bullets through a living human beings head with a gun he'll die

No amount of "I say its not so" will change that

Maybe truth as in observation and fact as some theoretical reality that we need to infer.

A religion that forbids questions is one I don't want to be part of.

https://twitter.com/ap/status/1055159299348017159?s=12

Anyway. I don't want to guide my life by things I cannot test.

i am not a post-modernist. i don't believe this crap. but you need to be able to understand those that are. you are failing to do so and your puffy statements about facts are irrelevant to those who seek to have you under their boot.

Truth is subjective,

Facts are static, they don't chang, no matter what anyone chooses to believe

To the degree that I can test religion, I would apply the scientific method, which makes the distinction moot.

you can never test everything that needs to be true for a plane to fly

No, you just don't understand what i'm saying

no vacation for you?

You don't use the scientific method for religion because religion isn't a science.

We both know, that those in power can compel "truth"

But no matter what they want they can't compel facts

That is why post-modernism is falling appart at every turn

Right, which is why I keep making the distinction between knowledge and scientific method.

Because you can't "Want" reality to change

The body of scientific knowledge and the amount I was able to verify is always imperfect.

But the scientific METHOD has proven itself in myriads of scenarios.

they're not falling apart. they might very well win. this fight is nowhere close to won.

So even though I do not have perfect knowledge, I have an ALGORITHM by which to proceed.

they will keep fighting, by any means necessary, forever.

yes

Let's say you programmed a robot:

but their "dreams" are incompatible with reality

so they'll never be able to achieve them

make it exterminate humanity

You can program a path navigation, but you can never test the robot in all conceivable environments.

Still, you can program a robot that does a decent job at navigating a room.

I have programmed such robots.

Its like trannies,

They might look like it,
They might act like it,
They might believe they are,

But they are not the other biological sex

hypocrit that you are, for you trust the same chemicals in your head to tell you they are chemicals

will you fight? or will you perish like a dog?

The algorithm is the scientific method - the specific rooms are akin to the knowledge and scenarios that I have tested.

Once I have test a lot of rooms, I get more confident. Do I have certainty? No.

because they factually aren't

even in failure post-modernists cause massive pain and suffering and threaten the entire world. the soviet union was the direct result of post-modern philosophy and not only did they kill millions, they very nearly destroyed the earth on several occasions.

Yes

and they never got their dream

isn't it even a communist motto?

"If you die from startvation, you just didn't want to live enough"?

lmao just dab on starvation

just eat xD

This topic will not go anywhere if discussed in this way. You can do good and bad things in the name of science and in the name of religion.

If we want to make sensible comparisons, we have to discuss its methods.

religion gives people a purpose greater than their own

for people who can't think of a purpose for themselves

What is our standard? My standard is how accurate each is at making sense of reality.

i dono i think its kinda the other way around

ideas have people

lol transgenderism as a social construct

The scientific method has an undeniable track record and where it conflicts with religion should supersede it.

checkmate

The scientific institutions, on the other hand, and our scientific knowledge, is imperfect. We have gender studies.

It is the difference between algorithm and implementation.

but thats the result of post-modernism which me and atkins discussed just now

A sorting implementation can be wrong, but it's algorithm, on paper, can still be correct.

The scientific method has been shown to be very good, but its implementation is lacking a lot of times.

people wanting gender studies to be a science, cuz they see it as being a science, that they decide the rules for

Yes.

And it can be disproven with science.

yes

The scientific method can show wether it is nonsense.

Which distinguishes the body of scientific knowledge from the scientific method.

but tahts the difference between "truth" as seen by post-modernists and normal modernists

If it is "truth" that cannot be tested, it's not science.

post-modernists don't see truth. they think it's a meaningless word

If I cannot test post-modernism, it has no relevance to me.

Alrighr bois

Bombs have also been sent to a Republican newspaper

too late

I can also make up a new Mathematical operator. It can be without contradiction and perform operations, but that does not mean I have made any showings about reality.

we already have a hashtag

we're not changing the narrative now

send bombs to yourself to own the libs/cons

#magabomber

Oh shet

- Normal modernists see truth as proven by science, the scientific method is the authority on truth
- Post modernists see "truth" as subjective, everyone has their own truth, cuz everyone has a different perspective,

hence there is no authority on what is truth, and everyone can just set "truth" as what they believe in

So Trump is gonna get shot by #magabomber

as such they reject the scientific method

@Dr.Wol Well, then "truth" has been divorced from reality.

I have no used for such a "truth"

I cannot test it, it's irrelevant.

exactly

just like Atkins said

Post modernists have no concept of truth, cuz they see it as irrelevant, Truth is an opinion to them

And ideally the scientific method should correct such a mistake.

However, there is also truth in us being emotional beings.

We have given those areas of study a pass.

Gender Studies is full of nepotism, circular reasoning.

And here we go ...

Called it.

Who sends usb thumb drive to someone

Lol

It was a bunch of media hype.

someone who has cracked the case

Are they erping as cia ?

and has proven that Proud Boys are secretly illuminati

The Proud Boys advertise themselves as being inclusive of all sexual orientations.

By rational standards, they are basically a far left organization.

"The Proud Boys confuse the media because the group is anti-SJW without being alt-right. “Western chauvinist” includes all races, religions, and sexual preferences.

"

http://proudboysusa.com/

The Proud Boys are a nationalist, but otherwise far left organization. Change my mind.

But not women.

Are they even nationalist?

Ah, thats true.

It's for men only.

They're a proponent of a cultural sphere, which encompasses many nations.

well, they wouldn't be "boys" if it was inclusive to men 😛

The Proud Boys are another tolerant, racially and sexually diverse far-right hate group

Not sure what that means for the political compass.

but you can be a Proud Boys Girl <:TimThink:482277772497125378>

You can be a tranny and join proud boys.

can you not?

BUT WHERE ARE THE PROUD GIRLS

making dinner?

I guess you can form them.

😂

You mean stormy daniels?

Proud boys are right-wing on their political compass

yeah but even wiki lists proud boys as far right

Hmm ... I don't even know what that means sometimes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Juxg6WOv5sg

Wikipedia will list anyone right of Marx as far-right.

They also call everything alt-right.

Wikipedia as you know

well

Tim is alt-right so....

😛

Is a website where anyone can write anything

Everything is alt-right.

A lot of political pages get locked down by Wiki.

They locked GamerGate.

Wikipedia is useful for anything that is not politically relevant

Wikipedia is going down the drain.

Tim is like the most libertarian guy i know 😛 he just wants to smoke weed, skate and talk to people

Wikipedia has always been in the drain.

Libertarian?

Wait no one can edit GameGate anymore?

Skating is far-right.

he is libertarian lite

Liberal

he's down tehre on that 2d compass

means he wants to do drugs, and let otehr people do what they want if they don't harm others

Are beanies alt-right?

skin heads wear beanies

😮

exactly

@Timcast You like sporting and eating healthy, right?
You know who also valued good health?

The Nazis.

You are a Nazi, Tim.

case closed

marx was fat and lazy

so crossfit must be racist

Hitler banned smoking

and he has a fucked up skin disease

hitler also banned animal cruelty

yes, marx had really bad boyles

wait, how do you spell that?

boils

boils?

oh

He was nasty.

yuck

i eat mostly healthy and i skate

skating is bad

If he was alive today, he would be the fat homeless guy yelling at people down the street.

i've seen fail compilations

Record yourself falling Tim

Hitler was a vegan.

Do it! 😛

See? He admits he is a Nazi.

Marx never skated.

Case closed.

Stalin used to skate

Hitler loved dogs!! :O...so do I

Yes, but Stalin wasn't a real communist.

you don't beleive me?

Loving dogs is alt-right.

hitler wassnt a real nazi

check-mate 😉

What's that? You breathe? Marx daughter want breathe anymore because it's a construction of fascist ideology. Fascist.

I use to skate too when I was teen

That autocorrect.

I once peed on a skateboard when i was 5 😮

My dog did, too.

I'll just leave it talking about Marx's daughter now.