Discord ID: 418667927169138688
I am trying to do climate change denial. :/
do yall believe your knowledge of global climate superior to that of united nations scientists?
or those of nasa?
its not rocketscience :dab:
Well really I mean in the long run there will be a natural cooling and another ice age, pretty much whatever humans do.
Unless there is a MAD nuclear war, and the planet is wrecked forever.
Probably not my most serious take ever, but plausible I think.
climate change is an existential threat for human kind
Sure, the climate has changed in the past
But also in the past there were dinosaurs at the poles and 400ft higher seas. It’s up to you to decide.
Unless you’re a big fan of dinosaurs, I guess.
to be pedantic, its still technically up to you to decide (x
No, by that I mean if you’re a big fan of dinosaurs I will refuse to let you decide
Are you ready for the Taiwanese century?
who's gonna fix and make the robots
Nobody. We will shoot the robots
our benevolent technocratic leaders of course
Taiwan unironically is doing the best in Asia
Or one of
High economic freedom too
Stage 4 cancer: “Orang man bad”.
Leftist audience: “HAHAHAGA”
ur mom gay
Look at this dead baby
Yeah the baby died in a wartorn shithole because of the mother but still
Don't you want to take in more radicalized migrants now yet, racist? Huh, racist?
andrew yang has been poppiing up on my youtube
i think he points to real issues but not sure ubi is the best thing
The main problem with UBI, is that the market adjusts to take it into account.
After a few short years, everything has changed in price, and price inflation means the UBI dividend is useless.
yes... tim pool said the same thing, inflation basically
Yes, exactly what Tim said.
they will have to raise it, it's basically an alternative to minimum wage, which is useless too
and in the short term minimum wage seems to be harmful too
imagine not taking the yangbux to build Ted Shed 2: No electric boogaloo
I would argue UBI is actually way worse than the minimum wage, because it causes massive government deficient and wrecks the economy, all in one fell swoop.
well it has never been tried on this large a scale but i don't volunteer to be the first
They tried a pretty large trial in Finland, and it was shown that the only benefit from the program was that the people involved were "happier".
Fairly obviously, getting free cash makes people happy in the short term lol
over time is important too
it didn't help the unemployed get jobs or something?
i used to be for ubi/bernie
They thought it would, but it had no effect on jobs in the trial.
i didn't vote for trump in 2016 but i probably will in 2020
it is not different from welfare for unemployed people
the difference with ubi is everyone gets it
welfare does not encourage employment
although welfare *discourages* employment by being afraid to get your welfare taken away if you get a job
which i think is why i supported it
i suppose it doesn't play out in the short term
but i think inflation seems like a problem that could occur
Ideally welfare should be seen as no more than a safety net to stop people literally starving to death.
UBI is pretty much just "hey if you vote for me, I will give you free money".
There is no real indication it works as an actual policy.
UBI won’t lead to inflation if it doesn’t change aggregate consumption, i don’t think
Which a VAT tax could avoid
VAT would lead to inflation
UBI, in the sense would cause inflation but not on it';s own
UBI like the equally destructive Minimum Wage incentivises people to demand higher wages and guess what higher wages do? They incentivise employers to hire less and invest more in labor saving technology. Then to make matters worse because the funding for UBI comes completely out of one of these methods of destruction:
1. Taxes-Employers cut back in the here and now thus reducing the number of wage earners
2. Inflation-Employers attempt to invest more in technology now to eliminate labor in the future
It can cause inflation, especially if the government actually *prints* money to pay people.
are you saying, that ubi will accelerate the doomsday robot ai scenario that ubi is touted as a solution for
See how the government fails to fix a problem, that isn't a problem anyways and it's been made worse due to said labour regulations and costs by the government, and makes it worse??
Autmation defo won't end like that, but it'll remove jobs
but create more
The problem with UBI, it may seem like a harmless activity but, this creates a disincentive to rejoin the labor force, because people believe the added income from a job isn’t worth the labor. Demonstrated very simply, if someone is currently receiving a total income of $1,000 through a means-tested welfare program, many will be less likely to seek a job which will result in similar income levels, as most prefer leisure to labor.
UBI won’t lead to inflation if it doesn’t change aggregate consumption, i don’t think | andrew yang wants ubi so people can spend more money and stimulate the conomy though
Yeah thats not good, spending does not really stimulate the economy as saving does.
Both saving and spending are good when done natural, but saving is the real deal
The inflation part comes from the points I listed and VAT
i don't understand how employers investing in technology to elminate labor causes inflation
doesn't it just cause unemployment
if the govt prints money to pay the unemployed people yes, but in ubi everyone is supposed to be getting paid the same anyway
isn't inflation caused when people have extra money, so much so that people are willing to spend more for the same thing
so prices can go up and people will still pay them
@Eno_ nah I mean the higher costs of wages will make them rise prices
Then they’ll try and invest in job killing things
To cut them costs
Price inflation and monetary inflation is different
But if automation actually does happen it will result in such rapid advances in productivity that inflation won't be a concern
If productivity advances faster than average consumption, inflation will decrease
And a VAT-funded UBI, while not the only approach, would help discourage excess consumption with that money and instead encourage savings and investment, which would help address the problem of overspending
and eventually we need to give up on the idea of people needing to join the labor force. a human labor force will be obsolete, and we need to know that and plan ahead. so while maybe we dont need a ubi right now, we most certainly will need a money-based welfare program in place in the future, ideally right before it is needed
how did i get conservative and bnl got libgay
i want libgay lol
And @sɪᴅɪsɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀᴇ a UBI is by definition *not means-tested.* If you make $1k/mo and get a job paying $1k/mo, you double your effective income, as your benefits do not decrease at all.
talk to [some mysterious admin]
not clear who
maybe the guy with the most roles
And ideally, a completely automated economy with fairly-distributed resources is the best outcome.
yeah, communism is, in fact, inevitable, in fact id say technocracy specifically, but i dont think we're anywhere near that
ohno i just realized i said that on a trump server
this should be interesting
You could delete it before anyone sees.
It all depends on who owns what and what rules they have to follow, in the end
nah, im waiting for reactions
*communism is inevitable*
i wouldn't say it is
Thing is, Trump isn't exactly against inevitable communist utopia, assuming for sake of argument that's how things ended up.
society could collapse
Communism is not inevitable
which is very probable actually
Society wouldn't collapse either
Trump's platform is America, now.
it would restructure and eventually be communist
What happens later is another matter.
why would society not collapse?
any number of things could end it all right now
it would restructure
and eventually be communist
how does something restructure itself if it ceases to exist
do you mean the human species going extinct or society collapsing? i see that as two different things, and humans always organize into societies and subsocieties
would you not say humans going extinct is the collapse of society?
thats what im asking you. i would say that, yes. but im wondering if youre talking about the end of humanity or not
sure let's say that
sorry if that was unclear lol
if humanity ended then yeah i guess
but well try darn hard to not go extinct
it wont be easy i think
it wouldn't be hard either
if humanity ended, then yes, communism is not inevitable. but im working on the firm belief that humanity wont end soon, assuming we address and deal with existential threats
which most of us do
i should wonder if there are climate change deniers here or not
i seem to remember there are but i could be mixing up servers
climate change is an example of an existential threat that humans have addressed and are mostly dealing with
anti-vaxxer is the new climate change denier
what do you think a communist society would be like?
i'm afraid it could be terribly boring
there are also plain old climate change deniers but the resurgance of diseases might be considered an existential threat
a lot of people once they retire no longer know what to do and just waste away
there are also some ultra wealthy who after reaching that pinnacle start becoming nihilist
hopefully people in this society will have a lot of freedom. the communist part is that there are specialists dividing resources up among all the people people and planning production. so a more accurate term might be democratic socialism or, as i said earlier, technocracy. but it could certainly be called communist.
i imagine videogames, movies, music and art will become the normal form of entertainment. education too i imagine
certainly sports as well
everyone would be retired but could volunteer to do unnecessary jobs likely. it would be 100% voluntary, unless you count peer pressure
it could be fun tbh
Then we could devote all our time to the advancement of human knowledge
Which would be super cool
Oh yeah then we might end up with transhumanism
Which would be interesting to say the least
Hey Morty, check this out!
@Leo (BillNyeLand) Visitor that automation advancing in rapid ways is the very long term, the UBI will cause inflation due to the reason above. I don't think Vat is a good way of "reducing overspending", not that all spending done naturally isn't "over" or "under", the best way is to abolish the fed and let the market control the interest rates, this will incentivise savings as the supply of real loanable funds will be low and interest rates will be high.
Yeah UBI is not tested but thats most likely what will happen, read above on why people getting $1k a year would cause problems.
A labour force will always exist.
Despite what people say, a labour force will always exist and full automation will not happen. People will be working with more jobs we don't even know of today.
if full automation did happen and human labor was worth zero in the economy that would be really bad too imo
because people, men especially, are hard wired to work and contribute to society, and ubi would not resolve that
i bet there would be a wave of substance abuse and suicides
but i don't think that is going to happen either
i think, technology will continue to improve, and make our lives easier in some ways, and i'm betting the amount of poor people will increase
B-b-b-but inevitable Utopian Communism!
they say, income inequality is increasing. meaning, the rich are richer, but most of us don't get richer. ok. but technology continues to improve. our lives continue to get easier/fuller because of that. think, smartphones automobiles refrigerators internet. the trend in capitalism is fewer people in absolute poverty (steven pinker). so just play that out over time. i'm not convinced automation will leave us with "nothing to do". people will still need to eat and we'll figure it out.
we'll figure it out aided by our more advanced technology
we have seen how smartphones have already brought new kind of jobs e.g., uber, could new technology bring other opportunties? e.g., automated farming equipment that is cheap and affordable? or other things we don't envision yet
@Eno_ You've got it wrong, income inequality is not really a problem
the rich get richer but the poor also get's richer
I highly doubt full automation will happen.
if you read my message i am arguing for why it isn't a problem
the idea of capitalism that lifts all boats
yeah, but people have the wole idea wrong
capitalism produces technology, that technology improves our lives, that's wealth
Capitalism isn't meant to let rise
it's supposed to make them fall
in nominal terms
They're supposed to rise in *real terms*
despite nominal wages rising, if prices fall etc real wages will rise
which is what Capitalism is about
right. if a widget is cheaper to produce thanks to improvements in technology
i think smartphones are a great example, computers in general
Increasing in supply, a higher purchasing power of the dollar.
deflation is good
i think this is an argument for not increasing the minimum wage
the worth of human labor will perhaps go down but we want to give people a chance to sell their labor, so they can earn at least something
if deflation is happening. having $100 from your cheap job is better than having $0 from no job.
if you increase minimum wage, you will increase the rate of automation, you will accelerate the communist dyst/ut/opia
alternatively, we should let the market figure out the new types of labor that come about from the new technology, at whatever their worth, and not interfere with minimum wage as it may well be less than that
the more we interfere in the economy, the more *we need to interfere*, look at venezeula
and its a downward spiral
one measure causes problems so introduce new measures to fix the problems etc. everything goes to shit
Yeah minimum wage is bad
i'm arguing for not touching what we have. i wonder would happen if we just removed it though.
if it ain't broke though... idk
maybe we'd see deflation?
think of it... all these homeless ppl begging for money, if there was no minimum wage, someone might at least give them a job sweeping the street or some very low paying job which would be an improvement to their state now
but as of now they are difficult to employ
having non-zero is a hell of a lot better than having zero
i think the toughest candidate dems could pick is yang
he's the only one not talking about identitarianism race/gender stuff
Yeah deflation is good
he's almost like bernie was in 2016 before he fell into the left identitarian narrative
or in 2015 idk
a trump vs. yang debate
i don't think that he will be picked though.
The idea is that being poor and begging for a job and receiving a very low-paying job under a completely deregulated economy is not preferable to having “free” money on hand to counteract any loss of jobs from forces beyond your control
And @sɪᴅɪsɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀᴇ you’d probably freak out at this idea but I’ve been considering the merits of QE4P (which is now my nickname), which would mean direct money supply injection alongside or instead of interest rate targeting by the Fed
That during, say, an economic downturn, the Fed could send every citizen a check for some reasonable amount of new money in order to counteract money supply contraction
It could then be free to raise interest rates and reduce/call in loans later when growth is restored
i am not sure the negative effects of having this "free" money would be outweighed by the good
we can see for instance minimum wage is almost useless
and at worst a job killer
i would like socialism to work, but i don't think it does
that said i do think a social safety net is required but i would like to see it minimized/reformed
The negative effects would be mostly inflation, so it would have to be limited during times of higher inflation
i think the burden is on the proponents of this to prove it will work. we have seen time and time again socialism destroy countries. ubi has never been tested on a mass-scale for long periods. the study in finland was unable to show their hypothesis was true
i do not want america to be the guinea pig, if other countries want to try it, in europe, go for it
and we need to reform welfare laws now
it seems our welfare laws discourage two-parent households
lol "mostly inflation" like that's negligable, just inflation. inflation is a killer. at best it nullifies your policy, at worst it destroys the economy
the problem in venezuela is inflation
Yes; however, the current low-inflation/low-growth environment likely needs a change in policy to fix
And a UBI would encourage two-parent households since it doubles your combined UBI