general-politics

Discord ID: 418667927169138688


42,736 total messages. Viewing 250 per page.
Prev | Page 169/171 | Next

2019-03-08 02:28:19 UTC

what

2019-03-08 02:28:48 UTC

I am trying to do climate change denial. :/

2019-03-08 02:29:09 UTC

do yall believe your knowledge of global climate superior to that of united nations scientists?

2019-03-08 02:29:17 UTC

or those of nasa?

2019-03-08 02:29:27 UTC

its not rocketscience :dab:

2019-03-08 02:29:47 UTC

o_0

2019-03-08 02:30:41 UTC

Well really I mean in the long run there will be a natural cooling and another ice age, pretty much whatever humans do.

2019-03-08 02:31:22 UTC

Unless there is a MAD nuclear war, and the planet is wrecked forever.

2019-03-08 02:32:13 UTC

Probably not my most serious take ever, but plausible I think.

2019-03-08 02:40:08 UTC

climate change is an existential threat for human kind

2019-03-08 02:55:18 UTC

I mean

2019-03-08 02:55:24 UTC

Sure, the climate has changed in the past

2019-03-08 02:55:55 UTC

But also in the past there were dinosaurs at the poles and 400ft higher seas. It’s up to you to decide.

2019-03-08 02:56:04 UTC

Unless you’re a big fan of dinosaurs, I guess.

2019-03-08 02:58:19 UTC

to be pedantic, its still technically up to you to decide (x

2019-03-08 04:16:42 UTC

No, by that I mean if you’re a big fan of dinosaurs I will refuse to let you decide

2019-03-08 04:16:48 UTC

😎

2019-03-08 04:17:57 UTC

Are you ready for the Taiwanese century?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418667927169138688/553431187062915112/yge3.png

2019-03-08 05:23:36 UTC

Yang 2020

2019-03-08 05:29:55 UTC

who's gonna fix and make the robots

2019-03-08 05:59:03 UTC

Nobody. We will shoot the robots

2019-03-08 06:05:02 UTC

our benevolent technocratic leaders of course

2019-03-08 07:50:55 UTC

Taiwan unironically is doing the best in Asia

2019-03-08 07:50:57 UTC

Or one of

2019-03-08 07:51:00 UTC

High economic freedom too

2019-03-08 16:19:50 UTC

Food

2019-03-09 14:02:20 UTC

Stage 4 cancer: “Orang man bad”.
Leftist audience: “HAHAHAGA”

2019-03-09 15:40:54 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418667927169138688/553965446836125728/image0.png

2019-03-09 15:41:02 UTC

ur mom gay

2019-03-09 15:41:06 UTC

1993993031174490101048482929844

2019-03-09 15:52:18 UTC

YANG GANG

2019-03-09 17:12:43 UTC

Look at this dead baby

2019-03-09 17:13:32 UTC

Yeah the baby died in a wartorn shithole because of the mother but still

2019-03-09 17:13:45 UTC

Don't you want to take in more radicalized migrants now yet, racist? Huh, racist?

2019-03-09 18:36:32 UTC

hi

2019-03-09 18:36:59 UTC

Hello

2019-03-09 18:37:02 UTC

Welcome.

2019-03-09 18:37:09 UTC

thank you

2019-03-09 18:37:18 UTC

😃

2019-03-09 18:37:23 UTC

😄

2019-03-09 18:39:00 UTC

andrew yang has been poppiing up on my youtube

2019-03-09 18:41:16 UTC

i think he points to real issues but not sure ubi is the best thing

2019-03-09 18:42:54 UTC

The main problem with UBI, is that the market adjusts to take it into account.

2019-03-09 18:43:34 UTC

After a few short years, everything has changed in price, and price inflation means the UBI dividend is useless.

2019-03-09 18:43:36 UTC

yes... tim pool said the same thing, inflation basically

2019-03-09 18:44:03 UTC

Yes, exactly what Tim said.

2019-03-09 18:44:13 UTC

they will have to raise it, it's basically an alternative to minimum wage, which is useless too

2019-03-09 18:44:32 UTC

and in the short term minimum wage seems to be harmful too

2019-03-09 18:44:49 UTC

imagine not taking the yangbux to build Ted Shed 2: No electric boogaloo

2019-03-09 18:45:24 UTC

I would argue UBI is actually way worse than the minimum wage, because it causes massive government deficient and wrecks the economy, all in one fell swoop.

2019-03-09 18:45:59 UTC

well it has never been tried on this large a scale but i don't volunteer to be the first

2019-03-09 18:47:06 UTC

They tried a pretty large trial in Finland, and it was shown that the only benefit from the program was that the people involved were "happier".

2019-03-09 18:47:41 UTC

Fairly obviously, getting free cash makes people happy in the short term lol

2019-03-09 18:47:41 UTC

over time is important too

2019-03-09 18:47:51 UTC

10 years

2019-03-09 18:48:24 UTC

it didn't help the unemployed get jobs or something?

2019-03-09 18:51:10 UTC

i used to be for ubi/bernie

2019-03-09 18:51:16 UTC

pre 2016

2019-03-09 18:51:38 UTC

They thought it would, but it had no effect on jobs in the trial.

2019-03-09 18:52:11 UTC

i didn't vote for trump in 2016 but i probably will in 2020

2019-03-09 18:53:32 UTC

yeah

2019-03-09 18:54:08 UTC

it is not different from welfare for unemployed people

2019-03-09 18:54:15 UTC

the difference with ubi is everyone gets it

2019-03-09 18:54:23 UTC

welfare does not encourage employment

2019-03-09 18:54:46 UTC

although welfare *discourages* employment by being afraid to get your welfare taken away if you get a job

2019-03-09 18:54:54 UTC

which i think is why i supported it

2019-03-09 18:55:07 UTC

i suppose it doesn't play out in the short term

2019-03-09 18:55:28 UTC

but i think inflation seems like a problem that could occur

2019-03-09 18:56:28 UTC

Ideally welfare should be seen as no more than a safety net to stop people literally starving to death.

2019-03-09 18:56:35 UTC

yeah

2019-03-09 18:57:04 UTC

UBI is pretty much just "hey if you vote for me, I will give you free money".

2019-03-09 18:57:30 UTC

There is no real indication it works as an actual policy.

2019-03-09 18:58:09 UTC

yeah

2019-03-09 20:15:54 UTC

UBI won’t lead to inflation if it doesn’t change aggregate consumption, i don’t think

2019-03-09 20:29:01 UTC

Which a VAT tax could avoid

2019-03-09 20:53:50 UTC

VAT would lead to inflation

2019-03-09 20:54:05 UTC

UBI, in the sense would cause inflation but not on it';s own

2019-03-09 20:54:36 UTC

UBI like the equally destructive Minimum Wage incentivises people to demand higher wages and guess what higher wages do? They incentivise employers to hire less and invest more in labor saving technology. Then to make matters worse because the funding for UBI comes completely out of one of these methods of destruction:
1. Taxes-Employers cut back in the here and now thus reducing the number of wage earners
2. Inflation-Employers attempt to invest more in technology now to eliminate labor in the future

2019-03-09 20:54:54 UTC

It can cause inflation, especially if the government actually *prints* money to pay people.

2019-03-09 20:56:05 UTC

are you saying, that ubi will accelerate the doomsday robot ai scenario that ubi is touted as a solution for

2019-03-09 20:56:14 UTC

🤔

2019-03-09 20:56:49 UTC

Yes

2019-03-09 20:57:17 UTC

See how the government fails to fix a problem, that isn't a problem anyways and it's been made worse due to said labour regulations and costs by the government, and makes it worse??

2019-03-09 20:57:35 UTC

Autmation defo won't end like that, but it'll remove jobs

2019-03-09 20:57:36 UTC

but create more

2019-03-09 20:57:58 UTC

The problem with UBI, it may seem like a harmless activity but, this creates a disincentive to rejoin the labor force, because people believe the added income from a job isn’t worth the labor. Demonstrated very simply, if someone is currently receiving a total income of $1,000 through a means-tested welfare program, many will be less likely to seek a job which will result in similar income levels, as most prefer leisure to labor.

2019-03-09 20:57:58 UTC

UBI won’t lead to inflation if it doesn’t change aggregate consumption, i don’t think | andrew yang wants ubi so people can spend more money and stimulate the conomy though

2019-03-09 20:58:28 UTC

Yeah thats not good, spending does not really stimulate the economy as saving does.

2019-03-09 20:58:44 UTC

Both saving and spending are good when done natural, but saving is the real deal

2019-03-09 20:58:53 UTC

The inflation part comes from the points I listed and VAT

2019-03-09 21:00:36 UTC

i don't understand how employers investing in technology to elminate labor causes inflation

2019-03-09 21:00:48 UTC

doesn't it just cause unemployment

2019-03-09 21:01:13 UTC

if the govt prints money to pay the unemployed people yes, but in ubi everyone is supposed to be getting paid the same anyway

2019-03-09 21:02:48 UTC

isn't inflation caused when people have extra money, so much so that people are willing to spend more for the same thing

2019-03-09 21:03:05 UTC

so prices can go up and people will still pay them

2019-03-09 21:49:21 UTC

@Eno_ nah I mean the higher costs of wages will make them rise prices

2019-03-09 21:49:30 UTC

Then they’ll try and invest in job killing things

2019-03-09 21:49:33 UTC

To cut them costs

2019-03-09 21:49:47 UTC

Price inflation and monetary inflation is different

2019-03-09 23:44:51 UTC

Guys.

2019-03-09 23:44:52 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418667927169138688/554087239571734529/image0.png

2019-03-10 00:41:57 UTC

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418667927169138688/554101604500897792/1552169702210.jpg

2019-03-10 01:47:47 UTC

But if automation actually does happen it will result in such rapid advances in productivity that inflation won't be a concern

2019-03-10 01:48:35 UTC

If productivity advances faster than average consumption, inflation will decrease

2019-03-10 01:49:20 UTC

And a VAT-funded UBI, while not the only approach, would help discourage excess consumption with that money and instead encourage savings and investment, which would help address the problem of overspending

2019-03-10 01:49:51 UTC

and eventually we need to give up on the idea of people needing to join the labor force. a human labor force will be obsolete, and we need to know that and plan ahead. so while maybe we dont need a ubi right now, we most certainly will need a money-based welfare program in place in the future, ideally right before it is needed

2019-03-10 01:50:16 UTC

how did i get conservative and bnl got libgay

2019-03-10 01:50:22 UTC

i want libgay lol

2019-03-10 01:50:46 UTC

And @sɪᴅɪsɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀᴇ a UBI is by definition *not means-tested.* If you make $1k/mo and get a job paying $1k/mo, you double your effective income, as your benefits do not decrease at all.

2019-03-10 01:51:02 UTC

talk to [some mysterious admin]

2019-03-10 01:51:54 UTC

lol

2019-03-10 01:52:03 UTC

not clear who

2019-03-10 01:52:18 UTC

idk

2019-03-10 01:52:23 UTC

maybe the guy with the most roles

2019-03-10 01:53:51 UTC

And ideally, a completely automated economy with fairly-distributed resources is the best outcome.

2019-03-10 01:55:41 UTC

yeah, communism is, in fact, inevitable, in fact id say technocracy specifically, but i dont think we're anywhere near that

2019-03-10 01:55:56 UTC

ohno i just realized i said that on a trump server

2019-03-10 01:56:03 UTC

this should be interesting

2019-03-10 01:56:24 UTC

You could delete it before anyone sees.

2019-03-10 01:56:31 UTC

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2019-03-10 01:58:12 UTC

It all depends on who owns what and what rules they have to follow, in the end

2019-03-10 01:58:20 UTC

nah, im waiting for reactions

2019-03-10 01:58:29 UTC

*communism is inevitable*

2019-03-10 01:58:35 UTC

i wouldn't say it is

2019-03-10 01:58:36 UTC

Thing is, Trump isn't exactly against inevitable communist utopia, assuming for sake of argument that's how things ended up.

2019-03-10 01:58:38 UTC

👎

2019-03-10 01:58:39 UTC

society could collapse

2019-03-10 01:58:48 UTC

Communism is not inevitable

2019-03-10 01:58:57 UTC

which is very probable actually

2019-03-10 01:59:04 UTC

Society wouldn't collapse either

2019-03-10 01:59:10 UTC

Trump's platform is America, now.

2019-03-10 01:59:17 UTC

it would restructure and eventually be communist

2019-03-10 01:59:19 UTC

thats fiar

2019-03-10 01:59:23 UTC

*fair

2019-03-10 01:59:24 UTC

What happens later is another matter.

2019-03-10 02:00:27 UTC

why would society not collapse?

2019-03-10 02:00:41 UTC

any number of things could end it all right now

2019-03-10 02:01:11 UTC

it would restructure

2019-03-10 02:01:17 UTC

and eventually be communist

2019-03-10 02:01:27 UTC

how does something restructure itself if it ceases to exist

2019-03-10 02:02:19 UTC

do you mean the human species going extinct or society collapsing? i see that as two different things, and humans always organize into societies and subsocieties

2019-03-10 02:02:52 UTC

would you not say humans going extinct is the collapse of society?

2019-03-10 02:05:01 UTC

thats what im asking you. i would say that, yes. but im wondering if youre talking about the end of humanity or not

2019-03-10 02:05:16 UTC

sure let's say that

2019-03-10 02:05:19 UTC

sorry if that was unclear lol

2019-03-10 02:05:30 UTC

if humanity ended then yeah i guess

2019-03-10 02:05:43 UTC

but well try darn hard to not go extinct

2019-03-10 02:05:54 UTC

it wont be easy i think

2019-03-10 02:06:19 UTC

it wouldn't be hard either

2019-03-10 02:06:59 UTC

if humanity ended, then yes, communism is not inevitable. but im working on the firm belief that humanity wont end soon, assuming we address and deal with existential threats

2019-03-10 02:07:04 UTC

which most of us do

2019-03-10 02:07:23 UTC

i should wonder if there are climate change deniers here or not

2019-03-10 02:07:36 UTC

i seem to remember there are but i could be mixing up servers

2019-03-10 02:08:03 UTC

climate change is an example of an existential threat that humans have addressed and are mostly dealing with

2019-03-10 02:09:06 UTC

anti-vaxxer is the new climate change denier

2019-03-10 02:10:19 UTC

what do you think a communist society would be like?

2019-03-10 02:10:30 UTC

i'm afraid it could be terribly boring

2019-03-10 02:10:47 UTC

there are also plain old climate change deniers but the resurgance of diseases might be considered an existential threat

2019-03-10 02:10:48 UTC

a lot of people once they retire no longer know what to do and just waste away

2019-03-10 02:11:14 UTC

there are also some ultra wealthy who after reaching that pinnacle start becoming nihilist

2019-03-10 02:12:52 UTC

hopefully people in this society will have a lot of freedom. the communist part is that there are specialists dividing resources up among all the people people and planning production. so a more accurate term might be democratic socialism or, as i said earlier, technocracy. but it could certainly be called communist.

2019-03-10 02:13:34 UTC

i imagine videogames, movies, music and art will become the normal form of entertainment. education too i imagine

2019-03-10 02:13:49 UTC

certainly sports as well

2019-03-10 02:14:39 UTC

everyone would be retired but could volunteer to do unnecessary jobs likely. it would be 100% voluntary, unless you count peer pressure

2019-03-10 02:14:44 UTC

it could be fun tbh

2019-03-10 02:53:51 UTC

Then we could devote all our time to the advancement of human knowledge

2019-03-10 02:54:57 UTC

yeah

2019-03-10 02:55:07 UTC

Which would be super cool

2019-03-10 02:55:21 UTC

Oh yeah then we might end up with transhumanism

2019-03-10 02:55:29 UTC

Which would be interesting to say the least

2019-03-10 05:52:27 UTC

Hey Morty, check this out!

2019-03-10 09:57:02 UTC

@Leo (BillNyeLand) Visitor that automation advancing in rapid ways is the very long term, the UBI will cause inflation due to the reason above. I don't think Vat is a good way of "reducing overspending", not that all spending done naturally isn't "over" or "under", the best way is to abolish the fed and let the market control the interest rates, this will incentivise savings as the supply of real loanable funds will be low and interest rates will be high.

2019-03-10 09:57:21 UTC

Yeah UBI is not tested but thats most likely what will happen, read above on why people getting $1k a year would cause problems.

2019-03-10 09:57:49 UTC

@!AAmazing Hoping This is incorrect.

2019-03-10 09:57:55 UTC

A labour force will always exist.

2019-03-10 09:58:19 UTC

Despite what people say, a labour force will always exist and full automation will not happen. People will be working with more jobs we don't even know of today.

2019-03-10 10:59:00 UTC

if full automation did happen and human labor was worth zero in the economy that would be really bad too imo

2019-03-10 10:59:42 UTC

because people, men especially, are hard wired to work and contribute to society, and ubi would not resolve that

2019-03-10 10:59:51 UTC

i bet there would be a wave of substance abuse and suicides

2019-03-10 11:00:37 UTC

but i don't think that is going to happen either

2019-03-10 11:02:54 UTC

i think, technology will continue to improve, and make our lives easier in some ways, and i'm betting the amount of poor people will increase

2019-03-10 11:04:06 UTC

B-b-b-but inevitable Utopian Communism!

2019-03-10 11:04:13 UTC

xD

2019-03-10 11:10:25 UTC

they say, income inequality is increasing. meaning, the rich are richer, but most of us don't get richer. ok. but technology continues to improve. our lives continue to get easier/fuller because of that. think, smartphones automobiles refrigerators internet. the trend in capitalism is fewer people in absolute poverty (steven pinker). so just play that out over time. i'm not convinced automation will leave us with "nothing to do". people will still need to eat and we'll figure it out.

2019-03-10 11:10:37 UTC

we'll figure it out aided by our more advanced technology

2019-03-10 11:11:25 UTC

we have seen how smartphones have already brought new kind of jobs e.g., uber, could new technology bring other opportunties? e.g., automated farming equipment that is cheap and affordable? or other things we don't envision yet

2019-03-10 11:13:15 UTC

@Eno_ You've got it wrong, income inequality is not really a problem

2019-03-10 11:13:19 UTC

the rich get richer but the poor also get's richer

2019-03-10 11:13:28 UTC

I highly doubt full automation will happen.

2019-03-10 11:13:36 UTC

if you read my message i am arguing for why it isn't a problem

2019-03-10 11:13:58 UTC

the idea of capitalism that lifts all boats

2019-03-10 11:14:48 UTC

o

2019-03-10 11:14:54 UTC

yeah, but people have the wole idea wrong

2019-03-10 11:14:57 UTC

capitalism produces technology, that technology improves our lives, that's wealth

2019-03-10 11:15:05 UTC

Capitalism isn't meant to let rise

2019-03-10 11:15:09 UTC

it's supposed to make them fall

2019-03-10 11:15:31 UTC

hmm?

2019-03-10 11:15:32 UTC

in nominal terms

2019-03-10 11:15:38 UTC

They're supposed to rise in *real terms*

2019-03-10 11:15:47 UTC

despite nominal wages rising, if prices fall etc real wages will rise

2019-03-10 11:15:58 UTC

which is what Capitalism is about

2019-03-10 11:16:25 UTC

right. if a widget is cheaper to produce thanks to improvements in technology

2019-03-10 11:16:46 UTC

Yeah

2019-03-10 11:16:55 UTC

i think smartphones are a great example, computers in general

2019-03-10 11:16:58 UTC

Increasing in supply, a higher purchasing power of the dollar.

2019-03-10 11:16:58 UTC

Mhm

2019-03-10 11:17:00 UTC

deflation is good

2019-03-10 11:19:29 UTC

i think this is an argument for not increasing the minimum wage

2019-03-10 11:21:20 UTC

the worth of human labor will perhaps go down but we want to give people a chance to sell their labor, so they can earn at least something

2019-03-10 11:22:07 UTC

if deflation is happening. having $100 from your cheap job is better than having $0 from no job.

2019-03-10 11:24:11 UTC

if you increase minimum wage, you will increase the rate of automation, you will accelerate the communist dyst/ut/opia

2019-03-10 11:25:43 UTC

alternatively, we should let the market figure out the new types of labor that come about from the new technology, at whatever their worth, and not interfere with minimum wage as it may well be less than that

2019-03-10 11:26:12 UTC

the more we interfere in the economy, the more *we need to interfere*, look at venezeula

2019-03-10 11:26:23 UTC

and its a downward spiral

2019-03-10 11:26:53 UTC

one measure causes problems so introduce new measures to fix the problems etc. everything goes to shit

2019-03-10 11:30:28 UTC

Yeah minimum wage is bad

2019-03-10 11:32:19 UTC

i'm arguing for not touching what we have. i wonder would happen if we just removed it though.

2019-03-10 11:33:14 UTC

if it ain't broke though... idk

2019-03-10 11:33:48 UTC

maybe we'd see deflation?

2019-03-10 11:39:18 UTC

think of it... all these homeless ppl begging for money, if there was no minimum wage, someone might at least give them a job sweeping the street or some very low paying job which would be an improvement to their state now

2019-03-10 11:39:46 UTC

but as of now they are difficult to employ

2019-03-10 11:41:08 UTC

having non-zero is a hell of a lot better than having zero

2019-03-10 11:48:23 UTC

i think the toughest candidate dems could pick is yang

2019-03-10 11:48:56 UTC

he's the only one not talking about identitarianism race/gender stuff

2019-03-10 11:49:24 UTC

Yeah deflation is good

2019-03-10 11:50:13 UTC

he's almost like bernie was in 2016 before he fell into the left identitarian narrative

2019-03-10 11:50:31 UTC

or in 2015 idk

2019-03-10 11:51:47 UTC

a trump vs. yang debate

2019-03-10 11:53:44 UTC

i don't think that he will be picked though.

2019-03-10 11:53:56 UTC

ya

2019-03-10 14:27:21 UTC

The idea is that being poor and begging for a job and receiving a very low-paying job under a completely deregulated economy is not preferable to having “free” money on hand to counteract any loss of jobs from forces beyond your control

2019-03-10 14:28:41 UTC

And @sɪᴅɪsɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀᴇ you’d probably freak out at this idea but I’ve been considering the merits of QE4P (which is now my nickname), which would mean direct money supply injection alongside or instead of interest rate targeting by the Fed

2019-03-10 14:30:16 UTC

That during, say, an economic downturn, the Fed could send every citizen a check for some reasonable amount of new money in order to counteract money supply contraction

2019-03-10 14:30:45 UTC

It could then be free to raise interest rates and reduce/call in loans later when growth is restored

2019-03-10 15:00:05 UTC

i am not sure the negative effects of having this "free" money would be outweighed by the good

2019-03-10 15:00:21 UTC

we can see for instance minimum wage is almost useless

2019-03-10 15:00:28 UTC

and at worst a job killer

2019-03-10 15:00:54 UTC

i would like socialism to work, but i don't think it does

2019-03-10 15:14:36 UTC

that said i do think a social safety net is required but i would like to see it minimized/reformed

2019-03-10 15:44:40 UTC

The negative effects would be mostly inflation, so it would have to be limited during times of higher inflation

2019-03-10 16:00:02 UTC

i think the burden is on the proponents of this to prove it will work. we have seen time and time again socialism destroy countries. ubi has never been tested on a mass-scale for long periods. the study in finland was unable to show their hypothesis was true

2019-03-10 16:01:33 UTC

i do not want america to be the guinea pig, if other countries want to try it, in europe, go for it

2019-03-10 16:01:49 UTC

and we need to reform welfare laws now

2019-03-10 16:02:10 UTC

it seems our welfare laws discourage two-parent households

2019-03-10 16:03:04 UTC

lol "mostly inflation" like that's negligable, just inflation. inflation is a killer. at best it nullifies your policy, at worst it destroys the economy

2019-03-10 16:05:33 UTC

the problem in venezuela is inflation

2019-03-10 16:21:49 UTC

Yes; however, the current low-inflation/low-growth environment likely needs a change in policy to fix

2019-03-10 16:22:13 UTC

And a UBI would encourage two-parent households since it doubles your combined UBI

42,736 total messages. Viewing 250 per page.
Prev | Page 169/171 | Next