So it starts of introducing that this was a dream, but we have come to know it as prophecy that has been fulfilled.On v2 there are four great beast, and we can confirm this based on v. 17.
V4 The first beast is a lion, which represents Daniels current day Babylon, it was majestic, beautiful, but Daniel watched as the kingdom was taken by the second beast, a bear with three ribs in its mouth, the ribs are the countries that Media-Persia over took: Babylon, Egypt, and Libia.
Then Media-Persia is destroyed by the second beast, a Leopard with four wings, this beast as we have come to know history is known as Greece. Alexander the Great led and served as King established the largest empire the world had ever seen. The four wings represent the four generals

Cassender Lysimachus

Ptolemy

Selecucus

https://www.wdl.org/en/item/11739/

Then the four beast presents Rome. The ten horns represent ten kingdom

These are the ten kingdoms:

Those were tusks in Beast #2, the bear's, mouth; hence, the command: "Arise, devour much flesh."
> _The second beast was like a bear;* it was raised up on one side, and among the teeth in its mouth were three tusks. It was given the order, “Arise, devour much flesh.” _

Always read Daniels prophecy in conjunctiin with Revelation if I may be so bold as to say. Though it isperfect in its parrallel to secular history, it cannot be interpreted correctly in its full breadth and scopewithout the two. The symbology and allegory used are the same as is used by themystery schools. Both are meant as not only an answer to what is comming forus, but as a rebuttal to mystery babylon. They hiwever solved this problem by convincing their adepts that both Gods word and their plans arebased upon the astrotheological plan that the mystery religions have as one of their basic tenants

Three tusks or ribs, the part of the body maybe different translation to translation @Karnivore but the imagery is still the same.

One big mistake people make is they think beasts are kingdoms, these are always represented by horns or crowns. A beast is a governmental system.

@Vitaly Hmelevsky this is just a first part of it

@nightstvlker 👍

@Vitaly Hmelevsky Night Stalker made an assertion to carnivore that he is backing up

@Deleted User got it, I just jumped in out of nowhere, my apologies

@Karnivore i m not asking for an argument about what imagery as been changed the meaning of this prophecy has stayed the same through each revision.

I'm looking for the trap door, before it springs open behind me.

I'm interested in how the book of Daniel somehow should be manipulated and contorted to indict the Catholic church as the anti-christ.

I’m getting to it @Karnivore

This isn’t an easy subject to not only describe vs to vs but also get you history to go along with it

From those ten horns, a little horn came out, which uprooted three:
Heruli, Vandals and Ostrogoths 493ad 534ad and then 538ad respectively. These were the weakest kingdoms and 538 ad is when the that’s when the Papacy came into full power as the first to use politics and religion rule, this was also the beginning of the dark ages. And murdering true believers.

We see this in v21

> Daniel 11:21:
> _ “There shall arise in his place a despicable person, to whom the royal insignia shall not be given. He shall enter by stealth and seize the kingdom by fraud."_
Here begins the career of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

It has nothing to do with the pope.

That's another contrivance of anti-catholics.

Then in v23 through 25 we see the the papacy ad Faldo teaching being spread through the the world

And the false**

> Daniel 11:22:
> _"Armed forces shall be completely overwhelmed by him and crushed, even the prince of the covenant."_
The prince of the covenant: the high priest Onias III, who was murdered.

The sabbath changed in 321ad
The Passover in 325ad
345ad the implemented Christmas
468 the began to place crosses in their church.

The rules for a a time 1 year times 2 yr .5 time half year — a each days of said years being a year according to 2 Peter chapter 3:8

So you find out how many days are in 3 1/2 years which 1260 plus 538 which I already was the start of papal rule, and we get to 1798, which was the year the pope was captured and killed by Napoleon

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwj556n11_PnAhVMWq0KHZHVBiEQygQwAHoECAUQBQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPope_Pius_VI%23Deposition_and_death_under_Napoleon&usg=AOvVaw0Ou2czqccmnAo9E2q9036v

Did this come out of The Da Vinci Code movie?

No

I never saw it; wasn't interested in anti-catholic movies.

No this is all historically prove

Proven

I'm reading this again and trying to make sense of it.

Verse 9-10

The judgement was set, and the books were opened.
Sounds like the judgment day to me

AZ

I think verse 9-10 sounds like it's describing God.

Heyyy you

7:1-28

Is one prophecy

I'm just going to pull back on the stick and go back to a 10,000 foot view here.

I really would like to here your biblical explanation of of this, I don’t want your opinion use the Bible to make your point.

It's my understanding that the book of Daniel was written during the reign of Antiochus IV.

"use the bible to make my point"?

you have not used the bible to make one

No the book of Daniel was written through out several Kong’s of Babylon

you have decided that you can tell us what a prophecy means

I didn’t decide

That I showed my belief through scripture and history

no, you have given verses of scripture, then decided what it means for yourself.

then you have attempted to tie your vision of what scripture means to history

I could probably open the phone book, randomly lay my finger on a name, and somehow prove that that person was the "little horn" that Daniel was talking about.

But it wouldn't really be proof.

It would be nonsense.

And it's no different than you telling me what the fourth beast is.

and what the ten horns represent

You cannot prove what the ten horns represent any more than I can.

There is no scripture that defines what the ten horns represent.

That’s because you can see through history how this was full filled

But you have just based a huge portion of your assertion on the notion that you have told us what the ten horns represent.

None of it was done till after Jesus died,

none of what?

There are 3 or 4 kings just before Daniel 7

None of what occurred in the 7 was done till after the Bible was written

I think what you're trying to say is that what was depicted in Daniel's vision was to take place much later, after the bible was compiled.

Is that what you mean?

If so, I would agree.

If not, please explain.

Yes that is what I meant

great

I agree with that statement.

But yeah, it’s really hard study for a lot of people @Karnivore

I also agree with that statement.

But I ve always wanted to see the Bible explained with history.

And history that you can find in text books or websites that don’t believe in the Bible.

Those are what I called irrefutable facts.

Because both sides agree that these facts correlate. The may not be trying to explain Daniel but the history is the same.

I'm not following you. Are you saying that "history" disconnected from the bible is an irrefutable fact?

I also don't subscribe to the quoting of scripture to be the _ONLY_ means to prove something.

Certainly, scripture is a standard of proof.

It does not void the binding authority of the church.

In other words, I don't subscribe to _sola scriptura_.

I'm sorry, Night, but I think your assertion about the pope and the Catholic church having anything to do with Daniel 2 and 7 are complete rubbish.

By scripture alone, it cannot be proven.

And that is the rule you want me to follow: sola scriptura.

Jews in the old testament also did not believe in sola scriptura.

I am here and I am listening and I’m trying to answer you’re arguments with bible

understood

It might not all happen tonight, but I am going to respond I promise and also please no I’m not trying to destroy or slander what you believe or evangelize to you. That’s is not by goal.

I understand that.

This is merely a conversation.

It doesn't have to all take place in 1 night.

It can simply flow as we and time permit.

Can you prove that the RCC is not the antichrist — we call it a counter measure— using the Bible.?

I guess that’s what we should be asking

Why do we need a vicar of God — the pope— which means he is now representing us to God when we can now pray directly to him. See the Lord’s Prayer .

For your first question, I don't have to prove that the RCC is not the antichrist. The onus is on you.

Regarding vicar, you must first define the word vicar.

> from Latin vicarius "a substitute, deputy, proxy," noun use of adjective vicarius "substituted, delegated," from vicis "change, interchange, succession; a place, position"

Peter was assigned Vicar of Christ, by Jesus Christ himself.

I'm sure you know the bible verse.

Pope Francis is the current Vicar of Christ, though Apostolic succession.

He was not signed the vocal of Christ

Vicar

I do not the scripture you are talking aboutandnwill get back to on any more but I am head to the music chat to play a bunch of sappy love song folk music and doze off

Yes, it's very late.

This can continue another time.

I'll post this here for you to read later.

> The Vicar of Christ as the wise and faithful steward whom his Master (Jesus Christ) has set over His household (the Church on earth) to care for His other servants (Christians) in until His return (Second Coming). (Luke 12:41-46; Matthew 24:45-51)
>
> The Vicar of Christ is the man to whom Jesus Christ entrusted the feeding and tending of His lambs and sheep (Christians). (John 21:15-17)
>
> The Vicar of Christ is the man to whom Jesus Christ entrusted the keys of His Kingdom. (Matthew 16:18-19; prefigured in Isaiah 22:15-24.)

https://youtu.be/E72vXgfR4TE

@nightstvlker I was going back and re-reading a bit of what you posted earlier.

I had never heard of those things before the other day.

Turns out that it's a commonly-used SDA attack on Catholics.

It is, but im not an sda

Or a Mormon

Or a Jehovah’s Witness

And sever different variations of Christianity also believe this

Several

I’m not attacking Catholics — although I apologize to any who I offend but it still does not negate the fact that I believe the actual church is the Antichrist

@nightstvlker you are correct, there is more compelling evidence then what you are presenting..just saying... Look up Anton parks, him and his team went through and deciphered the Sumerian tablets and Dead Sea scrolls, there are books that are not in the King James version or the Bible that we have today that belong to the Dead Sea scrolls, The book of Enoch, the book of Thomas, The book of Jesus, The book of Giants.. and many more... In the fourth century papal Rome decided what to take out and what to put in for their own agenda this is true fact, it is not the Catholic people that is the church it is papal Rome that would be considered the enemy, study Constantine..

And as far as comparative history goes it is really funny how our history lines up once you take out the latin....or papl rome

https://mbfpage.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-vatican-removed-14-books-from-bible_20.html

> "It is, but im not an sda
> Or a Mormon
> Or a Jehovah’s Witness
> And several different variations of Christianity also believe this"

I'm curious why you would borrow someone else's playbook. Also, the _"other folks also believe this"_ reasoning is a pretty bad support structure for your argument.

Circling back to your previous request that I prove that the RCC is not the antichrist, this is more than enough proof:
> >>> **__Matthew 16:18:__** And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

.

@Traversity
> TraversityYesterday at 8:34 PM
> "nightstvlker you are correct, there is more compelling evidence then what you are presenting..just saying... Look up Anton parks, him and his team went through and deciphered the Sumerian tablets and Dead Sea scrolls, there are books that are not in the King James version or the Bible that we have today that belong to the Dead Sea scrolls, The book of Enoch, the book of Thomas, The book of Jesus, The book of Giants.. and many more... In the fourth century papal Rome decided what to take out and what to put in for their own agenda this is true fact, it is not the Catholic people that is the church it is papal Rome that would be considered the enemy, study Constantine..
> And as far as comparative history goes it is really funny how our history lines up once you take out the latin....or papl rome"
>

Anton Parks is a French, "self-educated" science fiction writer. That was all I needed to read, before I closed that browser window. I suppose that if you are really lucky, you might find one of his paperback sci-fi books about the Anunniaki in your local thrift shop. I would rather stick with non-fiction within this discussion, unless it is simply for purposes of levity.

@Traversity
Regarding the bible, the Catholic Church did not un-canonize anything that was not first canonized to begin with.

Your link to this website holding the _"Vatican Removed 14 Books From the Bible in 1684"_ page is pure trash. Here is another article they wrote on that same site, along with a few quotes from the article itself:

> **__How to Manifest Anything You Want Using Sexual Energy
> - February 06, 2020__**
>
> "**__Step 2 — Build up your energy.__** Hold off on climaxing for as long as you can. Don’t masturbate for week, month or how long you can hold off. When you feel the urge, a tingling in your crotch area, close your eyes and visualise the energy reaching up and being absorbed by all your chakras up to your Sahasrara (crown chakra). You will feel it, like a bolt of heat up your body. As you do this, focus on your goals as much as possible."

As I said, **__PURE TRASH!__**

A cursory google search reveals that exact trash page you linked to duplicated across several other almost identical dubious types of websites.

Do you have a real argument to make here?

Bwhahaha omg you were paying attn....
This is dry but very informative please watch, I would love to know your opinion!!
https://youtu.be/UqEPt6imRys

@Karnivore HI!!

Hi, @bible whore 1 !

You type a lot

**ALOT**

I am heading back to bed. No way I'm entertaining a 29 minute YouTube video right now.

lol, Anabelle

It's not that much, really.

Night!

Considering most posts on discord

It’s a lot

The immediate posts above are nothing, really. Most of that is quotes.

I typed a bit more way up here:
https://discordapp.com/channels/607427759500951565/632268368916906023/655885518026047489

Anyhow, I'm off to sleep. Good night @bible whore 1 !!
👋 😴

Please check that video out tomorrow let me know

@Deleted User biblebot would be a cool addition!

For those here wondering about the Catholic question

This is not directed at Karnivore and I don't want a response

**John 4:7**
"When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, "Will you give me a drink?"

**John 4:8**
"His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)"

**John 4:9**
"The Samaritan woman said to him, "You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?" (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.)"

**John 4:10**
"Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

**John 4:20**
"Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."

**John 4:21**
"Woman" Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem."

**John 4:22**
"You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews."

**John 4:23**
"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks."

**John 4:24**
"God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

If anyone tells you that you must worship here or there, or obey these or any precepts of men, rest assured this command is not from God

**Matthew 16:13**
"Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"

Oh now it works

Matthew 16:14-18

Christ is the rock

Not Peter

And salvation is by faith alone

Now I hope I don't see any more arguing about who is saved and who isn't

Or none of you are

👍

I just invited bible bot for you.

Awesome thanks

People with so called knowledge - use other peoples truth- their words as truth. You can go back as far as the Sumerian tablets as well as the Emerold Tablets. Who really carved them? Aliens -or what race? But if people want the truth about Jesus, He left being a Jew. He became free. He taught God's truth. Which is no where in the Bible. All the twisted stories are just that. Even the New Testament only two are Jesus disciples. The other two are evangelists yes one followed Perter and the other followed Paul. Paul never met Jesus in the Physical.

Salvation is by paying off your karma. In Revelations - John talks about the SINS that cannot be forgiven . But most of that never was put in the Bible .

+biblebot

Sorry Jeses was the only one to bring truth to this world but no one listened. Why a verse. Is is written by man. God's words are not there nor is what Jesus really taught. BUT Jesus was the only one to ever talk about the REAL GOD. Jesus was the first to show what real Love was as well.

Sorry I read the Bible to many times. K.J version- parts of Greek and Latin. But again man never gets anything right. I gave up becoming a preacher when I was in my early 20's. To find the truth. It is out there if anyone really tries. But then again most will never find it.

2.4 billion people and how many of them even have a real idea of what God really is?

@Hawksblood that is gnosticism

Karma? Give me a break

Do not mix the doctrines of the world together, that is abominable

You must believe what is in the bible or you must not believe

In which case you are stuck with knowledge, and what a sorry thing that is

For knowledge brings only death

If you would take the words of Jesus as gospel, then believe your Bible

Otherwise you are lying

I am not here to argue

You have been given the truth

You have your stories to live by I have my experiences to live by . I talk about God from a point called God realization . Not story book land . I follow God and Jesus true teachings. DO you even have a clue to why HE really came here. IOt was sure not for the sorry asses that think it was for them .

Forgiveness - Judah was Jesus closest follower. He was the only one that do what Jesus asked him to do.

sorry -Judas

Please nothing important about Mary Magdelene was put in the Bible - I wonder why?

Oh Did I say I was there?????

You are a gnostic

I have nothing to do with gnostics

Yes you are a Bible thumper.

The truth cannot be given to you because you are blind, and the little things that you do see, you take and you ruin

God has given you a delusion to follow now

You will follow the world

Please you have never walked in my shoes. I put my life on the line by what I saw as well am only accountable to God not you are anyone else.

Yes you are accountable to God

Therefore believe the bible

Without it you have nothing

Look at the world religion created as the way people follow it. Can you even live by the Ten Commandments.

Why do you look at the things done by men and blame God?

Believe me, men were flawed before God arrived

But now you have doubted the word and have taken up the religion of men

You have become a gnostic and now you lean on knowledge, this is a covenant with death and you will pay the appropriate price

Nevertheless you can still return to the father

2 Peter 2:22

How in the world do you think I blame God for anything?????? Is is man's ignorance to what Jesus was teaching. But then again you have little understanding of the Gods all races followed for 30,000 years

Quote someone - only means you believe it. I know what Jesus was really teaching and proved to my self.

There are only two religions on this planet that have understanding to the truth about God's worlds. What Jesus spoke about in the Bible. There are over 2,000 religions and what understanding of God do they have. IT is a loving forgiving Being. (MAN).

You know nothing

Well you know even less.

Go and follow the foolish woman, it means little to me

Sorry I do not need to deal with ignorance - and a mind programmed ???

But do not use the name Jesus

Because you do not know the son nor the father

Use the name of the one who you know

That name is Sabaoth

Please you fool . I was with Jesus - He was the most spiritual person to walk this planet and I knew Him and Know Him. He is not here to say all the assholes on this planet. Peace

Almighty - GOD

HU was the first name ever given to God.

It was a sound we are are not names - we are sound - not what your mother called you. Good Night

Dang this elevated quickly

Lol

Yup, it always will

+random

> MaxIgnoramus Today at 5:38 AM
> "This is not directed at Karnivore and I don't want a response"
> "If anyone tells you that you must worship here or there, or obey these or any precepts of men, rest assured this command is not from God"
.
> MaxIgnoramus Today at 6:04 AM
> "Christ is the rock
> Not Peter
> And salvation is by faith alone
> Now I hope I don't see any more arguing about who is saved and who isn't
> Or none of you are"
By what authority do you make these statements, @MaxIgnoramus ?

There is no threat implied

The sky is blue.

Neither statement answers the question.

I answered the question

Karen - I will be in the debate room when I find it. I do many shows on what God is and What IIT isn't. Definitely not man's limited and programmed ideas. ON love another misused word. If you believe God created everything - God created - rape? IN God's higher worlds which Jesus talked about very little can relate to anything down here. Soul doesn't have this body and the five senses, or mind that soul has to use while it is in it.

You are a foolish gnostic

I will continue to remind you this

Revelation 2:1-7

http://www.bibleprotector.com/KJB-PCE-PLAIN.pdf

@Lil Brit Here is a good primer to get you started on proof of God's existence.

http://web.csulb.edu/~cwallis/100/st2.html

https://youtu.be/0YIaIRDpROg

💖

Thank you Jesus!