election2020
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I was wondering if he was one of 3 unnamed people from September. Didn't recall seeing date on article. Did you ?
The Dallas Jones one was 11/15. The 134 count one was September but it was just one guy, I recall...but not Dallas Jones for sure.
09/28, I'm pretty sure.
Confusing haha i thought it was a commissioner and 3 unnamed. 2 much sometimes to keep track.
Trump firing everybody,,,,who is not saying voter fraud
who did he fire today
I just heard Wayne County certified their votes. Earlier in this thread it was said they refused to. Any clarification on this?
As far as I know from people that live there they are split down party lines and will have to go to the state board.
Zuluzeit heard back and she said no news. She is a liberal and she said it was "Fabricated claim".
At first they refused to certify, then they reversed
As of close of business today they still refused to certify.
Looks like they're working late tonight
Thereโs a stipulation that if a full audit is not conducted by the Secretary of State the certification is void.
@mtpockets59 Thanks for checking. Why are you talking to a liberal? You might end up indoctrinated.
Zuluzeit heard back again and she is changing her story. She said it was on the news for a couple of days. So... indoctrination that would be impossible. She is good looking hahaha
Yup theyโve been shared already
Both?
Yup
Okay cool. I'll remove mine then! Appreciated
Been really behind.
So... Wayne County canvassers concerned about integrity were harassed by their compatriots to certify the vote on the grounds that the poll books never match... Seems reasonable
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/17/wayne-county-michigan-reverses-course-certifies-el/
> So... Wayne County canvassers concerned about integrity were harassed by their compatriots to certify the vote on the grounds that the poll books never match... Seems reasonable
>
> https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/17/wayne-county-michigan-reverses-course-certifies-el/
@stevesirag I would investigate that because thatโs exactly what they were trying to prevent from happening. I honestly am starting to believe there is a larger conspiracy a foot.
I believe a low level of fraud has always been endemic to the system, but this year it has been cranked up to 11 with the Trump=Hitler rhetoric and the moratoria on standard fraud checks such as signature matching. Interested in the larger conspiracy claims as well, but so far skeptical, still to be proven.
The more philosophical question: how much fraud + failed checks and balances has to be proven before we doubt we know who won?
The problem with moratoria on fraud detection/prevention laws is that the line for that question is lowered considerably. IE: if we have no signature matching, and we uncover a few dozen examples of vote stuffing, we can be confident there is more, possibly a lot more. If there is assiduous signature matching, we can be confident that most fraud was caught.
With the Detroit poll book thing, I heard a report that 70% of the poll books don't add up. Is that normal?? And if so, what's the point of poll books or canvassing boards if we just say that looks ok to me?
With the mail-in ballot thing, we have an explosion in the rate of voting by mail, combined with a precipitous drop in the rate of acceptance failure. Both should track upwards in the normal case.
Just to insert my two cents here; with everything going on, the allegations and evidence coming out, the inability for this election to even come close to being reasonable when viewed through common sense lenses, and the overall background of the past 4-5 years of outright abhorrent behavior towards the president (and really any other person not of the left-leaning affiliation), I have little to no faith in this country's election process.
Yes, abhorrent behavior is something we should all eschew and condemn, Mr. Pot.
We should, that's why I'll call out the same on the right-leaning side too.
Although when you compare the two relevant to this election, the left-leaning groups are currently the ones to be more wary of. I mean, they more-or-less harassed vote officials in Wayne County to certify results. Although making kidnap plots against sitting elected representatives (e.g. Gov. Whitmer) is also something to worry about
I'm less sure about of whom to be more wary than I am about criticism of the president being a sketchy premise for an argument fraud claims.
Yeah, criticism of anything doesn't come across as a valid premise.
Criticism of the president equaling an argument for fraud claims (i believe what you're getting at) is also doodoo.
> Although when you compare the two relevant to this election, the left-leaning groups are currently the ones to be more wary of. I mean, they more-or-less harassed vote officials in Wayne County to certify results. Although making kidnap plots against sitting elected representatives (e.g. Gov. Whitmer) is also something to worry about
@DeathRhodes666 There's no evidence these guys were influenced by 'the right'... from all indications they were anarchists, antifa types
You know what, I do remember a video of the suspects where one of them said "F*** Trump" I believe. I'll have to dig up the video or articles to be sure.
We all make a big mistake when thinking everything is binary. Elections are binary unfortunately. Everything else comes from all directions. Just because they wanted to hurt Witmer doesn't mean they were Republicans, right-wing or Trumpistas
> @DeathRhodes666 There's no evidence these guys were influenced by 'the right'... from all indications they were anarchists, antifa types
@stevesirag this isn't true
@DeathRhodes666 I mean, it could show motive but that would certainly extend to clearly uninvolved parties, such as myself, and 'The Left' isn't a pragmatically tenable suspect. Also, every offense perpetrated against entities which I have criticized should have landed me in jail by now. Lol
There is plenty of evidence just Google it
Lots of right wingers say f trump
I'm a libertarian, I say it every day
Antifa types aren't going to be taking pictures with confederate flags or say "liberty or death"
(they are pretty explcitly "anti liberal" in the freedom sense)
This line of argument seems like bad faith tbqh
Saying "f trump" is not a sign of jack shit, every extremist (for good or bad) becomes a purist of some kind and denounces their milktoast leaders as not pure enough; does that mean they are of the _opposing_ side?
Some of the suspects are former military, and have expressed support for qanon or other stuff publicly
Can you see a "antifa types" doing that?
This line of argument just doesn't make any sense
:jackie chan face:
The only part of your argument I agree with is that it doesn't necessarily reflect on any of the larger groups which they may be members of (republicans, right wingers or trump supporters)
But you are so afraid of the crazy-veto and guilt-by-association that it is motivating you to think wrongly
You no longer have to be afraid of that
If someone brings up the crazy veto, just blame the riots on BLM supporters
If you're appearing in a training glorification video with your ISIS beard and the only thing distinguishing it from an Al Qaeda propaganda piece is your Oakleys, you're not antifa.
undergoing divergent radicalization
Just like McVeigh started out as a combat veteran, later libertarian, went to Elohim City and came out as....something completely different.
Would we then have called him 'antifa', as used in the current vernacular? Because as far far as I can tell, 'antifa' is interchangeable with 'communist' and encompasses whatever properties the right wing outrage du jour requires of it.
Hi Folks
i am not from US but this sh1t with the election got me really interested, curious to know since there are two truths told in the media, how solid is this case?
because if true this will have far greater reach and ramifications that just USA
thanks forlks
Depends on who you ask. For some, no proof is necessary. For others, no proof is possible. That's why we have to leave it to the courts.
in the media it says courts dismiss the cases, problem is i have no idea which media to trust ๐
i just googled sidney powell and i got this
Voter fraud can be found in the Maricopa County, AZ data as seen by the Overvote (Spoilage) number and the Undervote (no selection) trends for presidential, when compared to the US Senator position as next item on Ballot. 10 times more Overvote for Presidential (5002) vs. Senatorial (458) Overvote events.
are all of you folks here lawyers or ?
Last Wednesdayโs lawsuits need to be re-introduced back in court, as the defense lied to the court saying the Overvote only represented 202 voters.
if all of this proves to be true, and the fact that many other world countries were using these systems , this will be a real sh1t show unless shoved under the rug
cant say i am not curious how all of this will play out
The Undervote is over 8000 uncounted votes at the Presidential part of the ballot. Highly unlikely.
sorry i am not from US so i really dont know how voting or politics works there xD, i am not big into politics , but i am curious about the truth here
because if true this will be
Data is all there! Question is: did the system cause the error, or were the ballots spoiled on that item, where Republicans given a spoiled ballot, while a Democratic given a non-spoiled ballot. Itโs not like the voter is tired from filling in so many bobbles as this is the first ballot entry on the form. The witness testimony indicated that they marked the ballot correctly.
You can find thousands of grand fraud narratives. No matter how many of them have proven to be without merit, they will still double down on the next one and be quite genuinely confused and upset that people stopped listening.
i listened to this,
> Would we then have called him 'antifa', as used in the current vernacular? Because as far far as I can tell, 'antifa' is interchangeable with 'communist' and encompasses whatever properties the right wing outrage du jour requires of it.
@Zuluzeit The guy I saw video of looked more Antifa, maybe there's a lot of mixed motivations out there, and the more extreme you get, the more alike you act whatever your motivations. In my opinion, the left shouldn't be blamed for Antifa and the right shouldn't be blamed for right-wing extremists *unless* they refuse to call them out/investigate/prosecute them. IE: the Michigan boneheads, whoever they are, were interdicted and are being prosecuted by the FBI before they did anything dangerous. What alarms me about Antifa is governors, mayors and prosecutors refusing to acknowledge their organizations, their criminal actions, etc and letting them off without charges even when police arrest them for violence. That's a collaborative relationship we can't allow to continue. The left *has* to oppose Antifa or they are Antifa.
@Zuluzeit Antifa is a german cross-party line combat organisation erected in the 30ies to kill nazis, but which ended up getting Hitler elected. This tradition was re-established by middle class youth in europe in the early 90ies, and recently exported to the US from sweden. It is a very specific ideology which recruits from the ranks of all sorts of communists, anarchists and socialist, but the antifa-ideology itself revolves more around violence than political understanding of where, what and when.
In the 90ies, the antifa ideology also drew in members of the hip.hop culture after specific recruitment campaigns.
I humbly suggest that that explanation is not what is being used to describe the American manifestation of it.
That could be. I am not responsible for what people who claim to know the Lx-scene, yet have no experience studying it, will claim.
However, when studying their documentation, LE reports and video footage, the export product - the american antifants - looks rather similar to what has been common practice in Europe since the 90ies.
Ideology and methodology seems extremely similar.
I think it's more important what both those who associate and take issue with antifa would claim.
Maybe so. I like studying phenomena in their essence, not how they are understood by contemporaries.
but that will be two different issues, I suppose.
The association between antifa and the rest of the Lx-scene is, of course, a study in itself.
as is the relationship with antifa and the press
Origin does not necessarily remain as a static essence. Actually, it seems like it almost always doesn't.
Oh, I agree. The origin, the german Red Front Union, were battle-hardened WW1 veterans.
And traditional marxists.
they would probably loathe the modern version and deem them decadent bourgeois.
Mirrored by the assumption that any member of the SS would be expected to, in deep indignation, open fire on any neonazi wearing their insignias.
As they should, as it is appropriated for image more than the token elements of ideology that are represented.
The Precinct officials had told the voter press the GREEN button on the scanner, accepting the spoiled ballot to disregard the voter intention for the presidential candidate..., or the Precinct official pressed the GREEN button themselves. All are in violation of election policy.
What should have happened is for those problematic ballots to be placed in to Drawer #3 for manual processing and inspection by a board of watchers (Democratic, Republican and Libertarian) to determine the intent of the voter, where the machine couldnโt.
'People are saying', yes. We are accustomed to that mode of argument.
@stevesirag I agree on the whole but am not sure about the part with not opposing something makes you that thing. If that were the case, I know a person who has some splaining to do. Stand back, stand by on that one.
I am an observer. I am not opposing anything at all, so that would make me.....
one with everything?
Hahahaha
@Doc you have achieved transcendence
You are everything and nothing. Now take your place amongst the divine hahaha
"He who starts seeking shall continue. And when he continues, he shall find. When he finds, he will be in awe, and then -master of everything". Logion 2, Gospel According to Thomas.
A buddhist walks up to a hot dog stand in new york and says: "make me one with everything." The hot dog man does. The Buddhist pays him, but receives no change.
"Where is my change?" said the Buddhist.
"Dont you know?" answered the hot dog man.
"Change comes from within."
> @stevesirag I agree on the whole but am not sure about the part with not opposing something makes you that thing. If that were the case, I know a person who has some splaining to do. Stand back, stand by on that one.
@Zuluzeit
I'm no proposing a general rule that you are what you don't oppose. In the case of Antifa, however, the summer-long campaign of nightly political violence carefully ignored by dems in media, Congress, governors and mayors office is telling. Local police so fed up they stopped obeying orders to go and help. Astonishing complicity in violence by omission of their duty. As for your Trump remark, he has vocally opposed white supremacy over 80 times on record, it's an idiotic claim media keep trotting out.
I know of no place or field where the whites are supreme. Defending that position has become harder the last 200 years.
Should be easy to denounce.
in fact, you could argue that "white inferiorist" would make more sense.
If the media spends the next four years demanding Biden denounce pedophilia I'll say they're treating both sides equally
"we are a weak and feeble, soon to be extinct, useless creed."
technically, he would be a hebephile. He is sniffing Tanner stage 3 from what I can tell.
I don't think he's a pedophile. The point is that Trump is also not a white supremacist. It's just the attack vector dems chose early on to keep race forefront in politics.
These are narratives, yes. If you are looking for anything but focus group politics and narratives in the modern political life, I suggest you are better off visiting a museum.
This is the age of the commercial. Where you create demand.
The ideology is dead, politics are now equal to reality shows.
Remember, you were given the sponge to wipe away the horizon when God died.
This is the canvas that is left.
Where everyone can draw what they like.
I'm not looking for it but I am demanding it. We're not that stupid, and each of us should abandon ad hominem and straw man arguments and return to rational discource.
Optimism is cowardice.
If you remove the glasses, you will see reality.
The truth is that, in some ways, this IS rational discourse. Focus groups determine what people think, and the talking head gets fed the analysis.
Some have noted that the focus group feedloop needs to be more and more frequent as the opinions of the public seem to be shifting faster and faster.
You could suspect that is circling the drain.
But I can sadly not see in four dimensions yet. Im trying to acquire the skill. It seems to be possible.
It is said so, at least.
I hate social media and the fact audiences are so catered to. It removes fundamental aspects of life in general and makes people less open minded in my honest opinion.
"No one wants to stumble across contentious ideas, this is clearly a negative thing."
@stevesirag My point was that something not being denounced to your satisfaction doesn't make it a component of some bizarre fantasy of a "The Left" Megazord. Nor does it imbue anyone with the nature of the undenounced entity.
Left unity is a myth.
I know quite a few EZLN leftists, and believe me when I say that they don't like the modern left neither, nor do they like the current idea of Antifa being for red communism.
They sort of had their image stolen in that regard.
@Maw I'm very interested to hear a rough sketch of what you think balkanization would look like here. I'm having a difficult time conceptualizing it in practical application, try as I might. I feel like I'm missing something. Like would there be little island citystates floating in a red sea, geographically? Would states still exist or would they coalesce in clumps? I'm genuinely curious as to the vision of that but have no adequate reference for this corollary.
I would also like to know who would play the parts that Russia, the EU, Saudis and US/NATO played in the Balkans war.
@Maw Left unity is a myth, indeed, but in the european theatre, you do have overarching structures dating back from the "einheitsfront"-system, transformed by the "New left" into a modern day plethora.
Largely responsible for the cancel culture here. The new Catholics parting language into acceptable and unacceptable and handing down excommunications.
@Doc My understanding from my associates on the right is that the Democrat citystates would immediately and literally sell themselves to China, as per the secret agenda all along.
@Zuluzeit In a civil war you buy your SAMs from whomever is selling. If it is Ghadaffi, so be it.
And Russia would curate the Trumptopian freefolk.
Weird your ping didn't tag me @Zuluzeit . In regards to the idea of balkanization: It'd be extremely messy. It would likely sever ties to the executive branch and simply retain state power and legislation as most states already do. Most of the federal law is covered under state law as it is.
It would require a ton of statuette rewriting though.
@Zuluzeit So china and russia trading blows inside the US, grinding the country down to middle age levels. Sounds like a wet dream for Bejing and Moscow.
They might.
@Doc I was being facetious
I don't think most states would join an offshoot of a US federal government.
But it could become a EU 2.0.
Dunno.
@Zuluzeit I know. Still, in your flipping, you stumbled upon the only scenario I can think of where an actual civil war would be possible.
That's what I mean, Maw. Like, if states remained generally intact, you have a Texas dominated coalition and such.
I think they would attempt to retain their individual entity.
Mass migration would probably be a thing. Ugh.
Open borders between prior states would likely be a thing yes.
A requirement, most likely, for the rest of our lifetimes.
Lots of walls, I reckon.
Naw.
I think states just want more power to have a say for their own constituencies. Which I honestly respect and understand.
It's why I have the stance in law that I do.
That the federal government has accrued too much power since its inception.
I agree. The republic structure is attempting to operate in a way that it wasn't supposed to. Hence, problems.
YES!
Exactly! Zulu for president!!!
Hahaha
Not sarcasm, btw.
hard to tell in our marriage sometimes.
Don't come for me because I won't fight back.
Retracted. Another time, perhaps.
"Don't come for me because I won't fight back." - that is what she said.
Lol
Voter Fraud identified in Maricopa County, Arizona, submitted to attorney in case CV-2020-014248 ..
The Precinct level data shows that the Overvote errors occurred 200 times at the local polling sites on Election Day voting. For Provisional ballots, Overvote errors occurred 49 times.
For Early Vote and/or Absentee Voting the Overvote errors occurred 4,953 times at Election Counting locations and/or Early Voting locations.
This analysis is still being run for the other 225 contests for Maricopa County, AZ.
The ballots are out of the custody of the Absentee voter when they return their ballot via USPS mail or by dropping the sealed envelope off at a ballot collection station located around Maricopa county, typically near Courthouse facilities. The error interjection most likely occurred at the Absentee ballot processing centers!
You will most likely find a very similar issue with the Undervote count, same issues or errors.
All of these FACTS show a serious level of errors which had an affect on the outcome of the Election results. The current level of analysis has been focused on the Presidential candidates race.
Fantastic. Dan_Sundin
I am a resident of this county, a voter who has gone through the counties Official Election Results and have noticed errors based upon the data available. Attached you will find a summary of what has been uncovered thus far. I am going through the Precinct data currently along with the county individual ballot items (226 of then) to show errors based upon statistical abnormalities. I am also going through other individual counties results (14 other countries) to also show somewhat similar trends of voting errors being observed by counties using electronic tabulation systems (of which it seems that 5 counties are using the Dominion Tabulation systems).
I think based upon the summary of the case that the county committed perjury in their statements that only a very small number of voters (202) were disenfranchised by the Overvote event. The number is actually for Presidential Overvote is 5,002 for Maricopa County, which is a 10 times greater frequency than what is observed for the next ballot item of U.S. Senator for 458 Overvotes. You are going to find a similar number of discomprecencies when reviewing the Undervote, where the Tabulation system wasn't able to find any selection for a presidential candidate.
The Witnesses are the ACTUAL BALLOTS.
The precincts seem to be where the errors were interjected by actions taken for Overvotes not to be routed to the TRAY #3 for visual inspection by the committee of Dems/Repub/Liber to see what the actual intention of the voter was on the disputed ballots. By the voter being asked to "PRESS the GREEN Button'', the election officials disenfranchised the voter of their selection for the presidential candidate of their choice.
(PART 1 of 2)
(PART 2 of 2)
Once I've completed my analysis of the complete set of voting results for the county and state, I will be forwarding the results to this same email address. The data will all be in an EXCEL format, captured from county election documents.
In Summary: it seems that the court was not provided with the actual data of the case and that it wasn't a single voter issue, but a systemwide issue where errors were allowed to occur, violating the Election Laws of Arizona, by Spoiled ballots being given to voters, system scanning errors, overriding errors for injection of spoiled votes into the electronic tabulation equipment, audit and inspections not taking place according to state election law. The counts are enough to have shown that the AUTOMATIC RECOUNT is required and that a systematic review is necessary for the integrity of the VOTE prior to certification by the County, and State of the Official Results. The audit should show that the current results are incorrect regarding the presidential ballot item.
Regards, ....
(Personal identification has been removed)
@Dan_Sundin outstanding, it is so important for the integrity of our election. I'm also glad that a local has a opportunity to have a platform in which to share. This is so important to our Republic that which separates us from Banana Republic's.
Hi Guys!
hey fefe
Why do states pass these laws without providing a remedy? For example, they say "1 observer per 10 tables" but don't answer the implied question "or what?"
Thanks! For all the work you all put into the show
I imagine the remedy isn't always the same so the remedy would be the damages if any
Read Dan_Sundin about Maricopa County issue with Overvote at 10x number of errors for Presidential vote..
@Dan_Sundin, you just advanced to level 1!
Does anyone else think that this rise in china virus has any ties to the possibility of influencing the courts for the necessary for changes in election manuals ?
What was stated tonight was so true because rejection rate fell in Az by 30% over last election. Have to check if az has similar change or comparable.
@mtpockets59, you just advanced to level 1!
The Trumpvirus has certainly seemed to be a factor in the necessity of provisional legislation, yes. @mtpockets59
@Zuluzeit, you just advanced to level 5!
Also, I just now figured out your handle. Lol funny.
Haha @Zuluzeit had my handle for decades . How is it the Trump virus? I believe it started in china.
Oftentimes names don't go to the inventor in favor of who popularized it ;)
I knew about it in early December, when I cancelled a trip to Taiwan, although it didn't have a name. There is no way I knew more than our government on that one.
Or the Chinese Government
Trump isn't the boss of the Chinese government tho.
@Zuluzeit i think you are being a bit ingenious with that statement. Because that's what the liberals are saying. And no one "invented" this virus except maybe a lab in wohon. Yea i and many of my friends were sick last November with a unknown virus.
@mtpockets59, you just advanced to level 2!
But it was them that silenced all existence of Wumonia until it was too late
I knew about it. I speculate that our foreign intelligence people knew about it, although they didn't confirm that with me. I'm confused as to how China could silence them, if I found out about it casually.
@mtpockets59 Are you sure it wasn't invented? It went from leftist hoax to existent but harmless to Chinese engineered bioweapon, to my recollection, no?
Or is it just say as many things as possible and gaslight about what was said later?
Kinda like election fraud claims tbh.
Ingenious =disengenuise. @Zuluzeit speculation is a big word for " I guess. " opens up subjective versus being objective. Well according to some reports it was and Fauci was over there because our government was involved financially and because it was reasearch that was banned here. I don't know how i could check that. So i chalk it up to credible rumor.
I still ain't learned all the new words and meanings like gas lighting. Sounds like it may be dangerous ๐
I think therein lies the problem. If we say that there is no way to determine facts, we can then pick what's credible. It's literally choosing beliefs.
Gaslighting has always been a thing but it wasn't at the forefront of discussion until Trump was elected. That wasn't mere coincidence.
I agree . But there is away to check by investigation.but im really not interested in that information at this time. Might later though. (Still don't know what it means .) It not a topic of discussion but it seems to be a action. What action i don't know.
If Slang for what ?
It's not slang. It's when people share an experience in objective reality and someone tries to convince someone else that what they both experienced wasn't real. It's a 3 minute Google read and goes something like that.
Maybe i will check it out. I know i don't use that word. Not really interested in it. But on the internet it seems to pop up alot. As a few others.
Some people find it intensely objectionable. Some, perhaps those that are most susceptible to it, have no problem at all.
Sleep well @mtpockets59
If you say so.i got to make a delivery at 5 am
Lol later
Can Trump create an EO to modify CDA 230 to create a first amendment clause
I was just about to post the article about Wayne county. Someone got here before I did. Good job.
I gotchu all!
Ive been following it almost minute by minute
Yeah, me too. But I am working too much and need some sleep.
We can all support each other! I appreciate all the input from everyone in here!
I just got on. I have been watching everyday though.
My questions are about after. While I am all about #stopthesteal. There are things that the posible new administration is proposing that I would like to stop. I am wondering if it would be possible to crowd fund and get the wall done prior to a possible Biden inauguration? # savethewall.
@Lesa A, you just advanced to level 1!
What is level 1
It's a bot, probably based on chat activity
@WatchingYouDaily, you just advanced to level 1!
... Yeah. Daniel Crenshaw is not the torch bearer for Trumpism https://twitter.com/notpinekun/status/1329217363795980288
This is the guy running for Senate in Georgia, he also hates America:
https://nypost.com/2020/11/16/rev-raphael-warnock-us-must-repent-for-whiteness-worship/?utm_source=reddit.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR1NP6R6pkE&t=6s This is an interesting development.
@leftingfighter33, you just advanced to level 1!
Arizona Maricopa County issues with Voter Fraud has now been submitted to Dan Bongino, Disesh DโSouza.
U.S. Congressmen Paul Gosar (R) Andy Biggs (R), with the 6th and 8th district individuals not available because Iโm not in their district (Iโll find another way in).
U.S. Senator Martha McSally was also contacted...
The Democrat members representing the State of Arizona will just have to wait ...
Giuliani is actually very convincing so far! I've often brushed off much of what he has brought forward as circumstantial, but I am much more sold right now.
@samwisegamgee77, you just advanced to level 1!
Is there any kraken
I can see tentacles for sure
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