#politics (Discord ID: 392485988024320001) in Orwell & Goode's Frens, page 2

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2017-12-19 04:26:49 UTC

But I thought you loved rights.

2017-12-19 04:26:56 UTC

Which he inserted into her body

2017-12-19 04:27:06 UTC

With her (in this case) consent

2017-12-19 04:27:18 UTC

oui oui

2017-12-19 04:27:19 UTC

To fulfill his biological imperative

2017-12-19 04:27:28 UTC

So, you do that, and you have the right to determine what happens to their body?

2017-12-19 04:28:08 UTC

She then destroyed the cells and genetic information he produced and deposited inside her with her consent what right does she have once it is in there?

2017-12-19 04:28:12 UTC

You do understand the importance of sperm right?

2017-12-19 04:28:33 UTC

It's now not just her ovum or his sperm

2017-12-19 04:28:36 UTC

But their zygote

2017-12-19 04:28:43 UTC

You leave genes everywhere, do people have the right to wipe off your cum stains from their skin?

2017-12-19 04:29:00 UTC

That's different. Come on.

2017-12-19 04:29:04 UTC


2017-12-19 04:29:08 UTC

You made the argument

2017-12-19 04:29:18 UTC

Organs are just the result of genes

2017-12-19 04:29:19 UTC

Fucks sake

2017-12-19 04:29:29 UTC

abortion should be illegal except for eugenics and mothers health

2017-12-19 04:29:34 UTC

No I didn't. Shit you left somewhere is not your organs.

2017-12-19 04:29:37 UTC


2017-12-19 04:29:41 UTC

It's not shit

2017-12-19 04:29:48 UTC

Neaksy nails how I feel

2017-12-19 04:29:48 UTC

It is reproductive code

2017-12-19 04:30:14 UTC

You are not abiding by your own argument.

2017-12-19 04:30:19 UTC

Incest is that thing I want to say is included but the amount of fuckwits today that are into it would abuse that

2017-12-19 04:30:24 UTC

it should be a medically backed reasoning behind the abortion (kid has the downs, autism etc)

2017-12-19 04:30:26 UTC

Just like cum stains on someone's face.

2017-12-19 04:30:30 UTC

It's the same stuff.

2017-12-19 04:30:37 UTC

It really isn't.

2017-12-19 04:30:44 UTC

Damnit you lost me

2017-12-19 04:30:52 UTC

You seriously think it's the same?

2017-12-19 04:30:54 UTC


2017-12-19 04:30:55 UTC

Why kill someone because they have a mental condition

2017-12-19 04:31:07 UTC

You don't have a right to other people's organs.

2017-12-19 04:31:10 UTC


2017-12-19 04:31:10 UTC

because we want healthy people

2017-12-19 04:31:16 UTC

do you not just realize

2017-12-19 04:31:17 UTC


2017-12-19 04:31:17 UTC

Like I said

2017-12-19 04:31:19 UTC


2017-12-19 04:31:20 UTC

Wheel spin

2017-12-19 04:31:21 UTC

Are in fact

2017-12-19 04:31:23 UTC

Even if you squirt in them.

2017-12-19 04:31:27 UTC

Both father and mother dna

2017-12-19 04:31:47 UTC

You seem to not understand this biology

2017-12-19 04:31:53 UTC


2017-12-19 04:32:01 UTC

Neuroscience student here.

2017-12-19 04:32:09 UTC


2017-12-19 04:32:10 UTC

As bad as it is, do we really want the kind of people who'd get abortion raising children

2017-12-19 04:32:24 UTC

But why

2017-12-19 04:32:42 UTC

Why not incentivise not having kids in the first place

2017-12-19 04:32:44 UTC

I don't care if it's all the father's DNA by some kind of magic. My answer would be the same, you have the right to determine who uses your organs.

2017-12-19 04:32:54 UTC

Or put a limit on kids

2017-12-19 04:33:11 UTC

Something reasonable though not china's fucking bad shit

2017-12-19 04:33:15 UTC

Like 4.

2017-12-19 04:33:15 UTC

So you agree?

2017-12-19 04:33:24 UTC

constantine fair point however even traditionalists are mixed on abortion

2017-12-19 04:33:31 UTC

The average family is 1-3 kids

2017-12-19 04:33:33 UTC

4th is pushing

2017-12-19 04:33:45 UTC

It's reasonable but could curb it slightly

2017-12-19 04:34:09 UTC

Call them babies instead of foetuses, the answer is the same. No matter how innocent someone is, they do not have the right to the use of someone else's organs.

2017-12-19 04:34:20 UTC

But it should be as many as someone can afford.

2017-12-19 04:34:34 UTC

That is such a ridiculous argument.

2017-12-19 04:34:42 UTC

So neither the mother has that right then.

2017-12-19 04:34:47 UTC

Which does not square with other things you have said.

2017-12-19 04:35:08 UTC

Anyway good luck with your mong invasion

2017-12-19 04:35:16 UTC

It squares just fine, having cum left in you is not continual use of someone else's organs.

2017-12-19 04:35:19 UTC

Abortion is a bloody natural selection

2017-12-19 04:35:25 UTC

The reason the organs happened was from the stimulus from the father

2017-12-19 04:35:36 UTC

i do agree with the notion that the father should have a say because the baby has half of his dna however the cells multiply and the baby develops with the use of the mothers body so thats why it would ultimately be logical for her to have a say

2017-12-19 04:35:42 UTC

The best natural selection would be if another bubonic happened.

2017-12-19 04:35:45 UTC

No really.

2017-12-19 04:36:03 UTC

But I will say no more on this. It's too controversial

2017-12-19 04:36:06 UTC

Abortion is artificial not natural selection fwiw

2017-12-19 04:36:34 UTC

define natural and artificial

2017-12-19 04:36:41 UTC

It's removing your genes from the gene pool

2017-12-19 04:38:01 UTC

But I'm done commenting on this. This is one of the few issues I dislike talking about.

2017-12-19 04:38:08 UTC

The technical distinction between babies and foetuses is used by abortion advocates to pretend the right they are in favour of doesn't kill. I make no such pretension, the right results in the killing of the foetus, and there is no hard moral distinction whatever between a foetus and a baby.

2017-12-19 04:38:49 UTC

The right for your organs to not be used by others against your will trumps that in my opinion.

2017-12-19 04:39:30 UTC

I am perfectly willing for all that death to occur in order for that right to be preserved.

2017-12-19 04:40:24 UTC

It was nice talking to people with different views though. I like it.

2017-12-19 04:41:36 UTC

@Whiskey-Vargas I do not hear many other advocates of reproductive rights holding this position though. Instead they merely scream "misogynist" when people disagree with them. I disagree with the curtailing of freedom to save young lives, but being against that freedom does not mean you hate women.

2017-12-19 04:43:35 UTC

And these same people foolishly want to curtail the 1st and 2nd ammendments, which are magnitudes more important.

2017-12-19 04:45:15 UTC

They want the right for a woman who makes the choice to terminate her pregnancy to not be judged for it, which is utter nonsense.

2017-12-19 04:47:20 UTC

They also do not seem to realise that if you go after liberties that other people care about, that they don't much care about, those other people will go after theirs in turn, sometimes purely out of spite.

2017-12-19 04:47:45 UTC

The abortion debate is a good example of this.

2017-12-19 04:50:22 UTC

I'm sorry, I don't want to waste your time. I see you still typing. I moved to another channel. It was great talking to you. I'm very tired and these topics are tiring so I'm just shitposting now.

2017-12-19 04:50:30 UTC

Luckily, cooler heads prevailed in the long term. Only once has a constitutional ammendment curtailed freedom, and it was repealed. It seems that enough people are aware of how foolish the game of going after other people's liberties is.

2017-12-19 04:50:37 UTC


2017-12-19 05:06:36 UTC

So let me ask you something then

2017-12-19 05:07:13 UTC

You are essentially advocating for the right for women to be in control of their property, right?

2017-12-19 05:07:29 UTC

In control of their body.

2017-12-19 05:07:40 UTC

I do not believe that children are property.

2017-12-19 05:07:45 UTC

But organs?

2017-12-19 05:07:59 UTC

Your organs are part of your body.

2017-12-19 05:08:16 UTC


2017-12-19 05:09:15 UTC

Sperm, on the other hand, are a component of a fluid produced by a few different organs.

2017-12-19 05:09:43 UTC

But sperm is by itself not life

2017-12-19 05:09:48 UTC

They are not themselves organs, like how bile isn't actually the pancreas or gall bladder.

2017-12-19 05:11:02 UTC

So what’s your limits on abortion then?

2017-12-19 05:11:23 UTC

Until the fetus is able to survive outside of the womb?

2017-12-19 05:13:28 UTC

Or right up until birth?

2017-12-19 05:14:48 UTC

Once it can survive, what is the point of aborting?

2017-12-19 05:15:22 UTC

You just get it out early and surrender it.

2017-12-19 05:17:00 UTC

Though I don't know if anywhere in the world grants the right of surrender to men.

2017-12-19 05:17:10 UTC

What if early delivery does more damage to the woman’s body?

2017-12-19 05:17:13 UTC

(Despite it being granted to women.)

2017-12-19 05:17:38 UTC

Then the choice falls to them.

2017-12-19 05:18:01 UTC

So what point do you support abortion until is what I’m trying to figure out

2017-12-19 05:18:09 UTC

What point should it be allowed until

2017-12-19 05:18:21 UTC

After the baby is out.

2017-12-19 05:18:37 UTC

Because then that's just killing for no reason at all.

2017-12-19 05:18:40 UTC

so 9 months abortion is fine

2017-12-19 05:18:59 UTC

Is it fine legally in the US?

2017-12-19 05:19:04 UTC


2017-12-19 05:19:11 UTC

But it differs from state to state

2017-12-19 05:19:22 UTC

Also just because it’s a law doesn’t make it morally right or wrong

2017-12-19 05:19:50 UTC

What I think should be legal and what I think is wrong are different.

2017-12-19 05:20:08 UTC

Getting an abortion at 9 month is just... why?

2017-12-19 05:20:31 UTC

third semester abortions are possible

2017-12-19 05:20:40 UTC

Also over 99% of abortion s are ‘convenience’ abortions meaning that, following your logic, there would be a point to just kill the baby after birth if the woman doesn’t want it

2017-12-19 05:20:50 UTC

I know someone who's hippie sister loves coke and sex, but an implanon is just TOOOO CHEMICUL.

2017-12-19 05:20:55 UTC

After all there’s a reason to kill it

2017-12-19 05:21:21 UTC

So rather than having CHEMICULS IN MUH BODY, she has regular abortions.

2017-12-19 05:21:30 UTC

dont see how mothers should be able to kill their unborn baby because they just dont feel like having a kid

2017-12-19 05:21:43 UTC

But do you see abortion as a killing/murder?

2017-12-19 05:21:57 UTC

It is killing.

2017-12-19 05:22:05 UTC

Then that makes it wrong

2017-12-19 05:22:07 UTC


2017-12-19 05:22:09 UTC

I have no idea at what point it becomes killing.

2017-12-19 05:22:26 UTC

That’s the issue up in the air

2017-12-19 05:22:31 UTC

But at some point it must be.

2017-12-19 05:22:33 UTC

Is it made of human matter that is still in the process of being alive?

2017-12-19 05:22:38 UTC

after fertilization

2017-12-19 05:22:41 UTC

if so then yes it is killing

2017-12-19 05:22:42 UTC

Killing is not always wrong.

2017-12-19 05:22:57 UTC

Correct. We must look at individual cases

2017-12-19 05:23:04 UTC

But we can also make generalizations

2017-12-19 05:23:16 UTC

I must not walk down the street and stab the first person I see

2017-12-19 05:23:17 UTC

its wrong to kill innocents

2017-12-19 05:23:24 UTC

baby is innocent

2017-12-19 05:23:37 UTC

If it's a matter of convenience just because they didn't take sex seriously then Abortion is abhorrent

2017-12-19 05:24:00 UTC

I know of at least one person who was actually like that.

2017-12-19 05:24:14 UTC

Most people are like that

2017-12-19 05:24:19 UTC

If you look at the statistics

2017-12-19 05:25:00 UTC

Honestly I had no position on abortion until I saw some of the insane statistics

2017-12-19 05:25:20 UTC

No, most people do not have regular abortions because they want sex but think "chemiculs in muh body" is bad, but abortions are just fine.

2017-12-19 05:25:33 UTC

Pretty much

2017-12-19 05:25:44 UTC

That is not at all most people.

2017-12-19 05:25:47 UTC

Culturally in America we are not taught that the fetus is a life

2017-12-19 05:27:18 UTC

This said, bad reasons do not erase your rights.

2017-12-19 05:28:20 UTC

This is the inevitable problem with giving people rights.

2017-12-19 05:28:27 UTC

Correct, but we must also recognize where our rights come from

2017-12-19 05:28:37 UTC

People are not given rights

2017-12-19 05:29:11 UTC

Rights given are easily taken away. You must be willing to defend your rights by pen or by sword.

2017-12-19 05:29:55 UTC

(Figure of speech. You should use rifles.)

2017-12-19 05:29:57 UTC

No, everyone has rights granted to them solely by existing. The purpose of government is to take away rights that infringe on others

2017-12-19 05:31:12 UTC

The constitution sees the rights as codiefied in it, not granted by it.

2017-12-19 05:31:23 UTC


2017-12-19 05:31:30 UTC

That’s why the second amendment is there

2017-12-19 05:31:47 UTC

You have the right to protect your own rights, and not rely on the government

2017-12-19 05:32:07 UTC

But the constitution is a piece of paper. The paper needs some steel, propellant and plastic to back it up.

2017-12-19 05:32:13 UTC


2017-12-19 05:32:28 UTC

The constitution is a set of beliefs and ideas

2017-12-19 05:32:30 UTC

Well, aluminium too I suppose.

2017-12-19 05:32:34 UTC

And those are impossible to kill

2017-12-19 05:32:44 UTC

Anyways back to my original point

2017-12-19 05:32:53 UTC

The constitution is the foundation of law and order

2017-12-19 05:33:20 UTC

You acknowledge that the government is in place to protect the rights of the innocent, correct?

2017-12-19 05:33:59 UTC

The government is in place to enforce laws, and defend the country from invasion.

2017-12-19 05:34:17 UTC

Should the government protect those who cannot protect themselves?

2017-12-19 05:34:38 UTC

We acknowledge that abortion is killing, after all

2017-12-19 05:34:44 UTC

I don't know. Who are they protecting? What are they protecting them from?

2017-12-19 05:35:17 UTC

The fetus from early termination, without being threatening to the mothers life

2017-12-19 05:35:29 UTC

If it's protecting it from the right to control your own body, sorry.

2017-12-19 05:35:55 UTC

So the rights of property supercedes the rights to life?

2017-12-19 05:36:32 UTC

It's the right to control your body, who uses your organs.

2017-12-19 05:36:42 UTC

tfw it's not just ones own body anymore

2017-12-19 05:36:49 UTC

I don't believe that people's organs should be used against their will.

2017-12-19 05:37:11 UTC

Yes it is, it is separated by a placenta.

2017-12-19 05:37:26 UTC

It is a body supporting another, growing body.

2017-12-19 05:37:30 UTC

So you think it’s fine if a woman knowingly gets pregnant and plans an abortion from day 1?

2017-12-19 05:37:42 UTC

I don't think that people should have unprotected sex if they aren't willing to bear the responsibility to have the child

2017-12-19 05:37:48 UTC


2017-12-19 05:38:13 UTC

And I don't believe the government should be in our bedrooms or inside people.

2017-12-19 05:38:23 UTC

I would agree

2017-12-19 05:38:30 UTC

Unless it’s to protect an innocent life

2017-12-19 05:38:45 UTC

Any right can be abrogated for that.

2017-12-19 05:39:04 UTC

Absolutely because life should be held as the highest priority

2017-12-19 05:39:14 UTC

Let me ask you this then

2017-12-19 05:39:20 UTC


2017-12-19 05:39:25 UTC

What rights is the fetus taking away from the mother

2017-12-19 05:39:26 UTC

No, freedom is highest for me.

2017-12-19 05:39:41 UTC

I'm not calling for regulations or the subversion of anyone's rights. People should take responisbility or some fucking birth control

2017-12-19 05:39:46 UTC

You can have as many mass shootings as you want and the 2nd ammendment still stands.

2017-12-19 05:40:01 UTC

All recent mass shootings have happened in gun free zones

2017-12-19 05:40:14 UTC


2017-12-19 05:40:38 UTC

North Korea and China have few mass shootings.

2017-12-19 05:40:49 UTC

Have you been to China?

2017-12-19 05:40:50 UTC

You CAN stop them.

2017-12-19 05:40:57 UTC

It doesn’t matter

2017-12-19 05:41:03 UTC

But I like the freedom more.

2017-12-19 05:41:07 UTC

Yeah too few people to shoot due to the natural communist starvation.

2017-12-19 05:41:09 UTC

China isn’t built on the foundational citizen rights hat we have

2017-12-19 05:41:13 UTC

The UK has a ban on guns and every year shootings have increased

2017-12-19 05:41:36 UTC

Earlier question: what freedoms is a fetus taking from their mother?

2017-12-19 05:41:51 UTC

China is state capitalist, it has been a long time since they have dared implement their ideology @Anemic Crusader.

2017-12-19 05:42:11 UTC

There is also a lot of crime in China

2017-12-19 05:42:21 UTC

A lot of stabbings and kidnappings

2017-12-19 05:42:31 UTC

But at least guns weren't used!

2017-12-19 05:42:41 UTC

Doesn’t matter

2017-12-19 05:43:01 UTC

please also note that a fetus's mere existance implies consent on behalf of the mother and the father for all the changes neccessary to accomodate its existance

2017-12-19 05:43:01 UTC

I am being sarcastic.

2017-12-19 05:43:02 UTC

To present a more fair argument

2017-12-19 05:43:19 UTC

No it doesn't.

2017-12-19 05:43:25 UTC

I would suggest presenting the number of bullets fired vs the number of bullets resulting in injury for each country

2017-12-19 05:43:29 UTC

People don't consent to HIV.

2017-12-19 05:43:37 UTC

they fucked, unprotected, and didn't use any form of birth control afterwards

2017-12-19 05:43:39 UTC

Or rape.

2017-12-19 05:43:48 UTC

Rape is the only exception

2017-12-19 05:43:53 UTC

That is not consenting to disease, that is undertaking a risky activity.

2017-12-19 05:44:05 UTC

Again, 99% of abortions are convienence abortions

2017-12-19 05:44:16 UTC

Rape isn’t a good metric to use for the majority

2017-12-19 05:44:19 UTC


2017-12-19 05:44:31 UTC

Should we hold the fetus responsible for the sins of the parent?

2017-12-19 05:44:34 UTC

And I don't care what the reason is.

2017-12-19 05:44:46 UTC

The reason for you using your right does not magically erase it.

2017-12-19 05:44:53 UTC

You should absolutely care what the reason is

2017-12-19 05:45:05 UTC

I believe that a person should only have an abortion if it was conceived in rape or they don’t have the sufficient funds to care for a child

2017-12-19 05:45:05 UTC

Using your right = killing a fetus

2017-12-19 05:45:20 UTC

Abortion is not a right

2017-12-19 05:45:27 UTC

The state does not take away rights because people had a bad reason. Nazis and Communists are allowed to speak.

2017-12-19 05:45:39 UTC

Only if they agreed with the state

2017-12-19 05:45:43 UTC


2017-12-19 05:46:06 UTC

Lmao censorship under communism is crazy

2017-12-19 05:46:07 UTC

Who has the US gaoled for free speech?

2017-12-19 05:46:20 UTC

You can’t say anything without fearing the secret police and government

2017-12-19 05:46:20 UTC

The state can take away rights. For instance, in australia we have the right to freedom of movement, that is restricted upon an arrest made by the police

2017-12-19 05:46:31 UTC


2017-12-19 05:46:53 UTC

So, someone squirting in you is the same as being arrested?

2017-12-19 05:46:55 UTC

Everyone has natural rights, and the government restricts them when you harm ‘society’

2017-12-19 05:47:02 UTC

You guys are like feminist strawmen.

2017-12-19 05:47:13 UTC

If someone is squirting in you, you are most likely letting them

2017-12-19 05:47:22 UTC

Feminists believe abortion for all reasons

2017-12-19 05:47:24 UTC

Pregnancy is something so easily avoided

2017-12-19 05:47:26 UTC

If you're not letting them then it's rape

2017-12-19 05:48:01 UTC

Do you want a baby? No? Then here, wear this 99cent balloon

2017-12-19 05:48:05 UTC


2017-12-19 05:48:18 UTC

extra worried, wear 3

2017-12-19 05:48:21 UTC

A 99cent balloon vs taking a human life and scarring the mother

2017-12-19 05:48:26 UTC

They want the government to not only pay for their birth control but fund their abortions when not needed

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