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First... U get surrogacy in Ukraine... You are sole intended parent.... Second....
Ok... with ya so far.
U can have a private 'marriage' so never pay child support and never have alimony.
You have your son... No daughters
Stop you there.
OK.
You are the sole legal parent. The father.
You embed strong male principals to your own son.
So... become Ukranian, sloppily abort daughters... ok... Not seeing the mgtow angle just yet.
No no...
"Private" or not you're tying your life to another person.
It's because they have strong commercial surrogacy laws
To let you be deemed sole intended parent on birth certificate.
@Terminarch nope 100% not true....
Will you be the primary caregiver?
Whats your Point? you Want a Son With No Strings attached ??
And keep ur freedom.
Have ur cake and eat it too.
By Family you Mean , YOU and a Son.
Then get the kid and don't get married.
U stay as apex. Male.
Sure man , Go for it
Wait... What's wrong bro?
You might As Well Fucking Clone yourself at that point then. LMFAO
@Happy Humble Hermit what u think bro?
I support cloning. Cool.
It's with surrogate not a clone tho.
Whats up?
U can pick eye color, gender, and hair color now.
Zodd... I think he likes you.
Guys. This is a breakthrough convent.
Ok, now I'm a little interested.
Women will be angry as fuck.
Yeah, But you Don't want anything to do with that bitch, So Why even Want her Genetics ??
What labs are doing this work? Or how do you know of it?
No no no guys... Please.
I want this to. Work.... For. Future mgtow.
We can restore masculine men
Or. Grow up with pussy ass bitches that brainwash single households
Look, you had me up until you said marriage. What does any of this have to do with a woman?
Where they scapegoated all the good fathers out there through our bs divorce system.
Welll... so far it's all good. A viable alternative to artifical wombs to tie us over until we can get the post wallers and the trannys to get the tech off the ground. Seems reasonable in theory so far, honestly.
@Terminarch it's not a real. Marriage.
It's just like a long date. No registration.
Brk... U can throw her away any second.
...
Because she knows she is always can be ghosted
And only as good as her last show.
No entitlements.
Ok... doesnt' matter about the woman, she is on contract right? So she is an object a biological artifical womb. Ok... then what?
30, why.
I wanna make good solutions here brk.
OK. So go to another country, surrogate, ditch the bitch.
You aren't fucking dating here... or fucking her. Its all done in a lab... right? That is what we are talking about here?
@Tommy WizOh no. Ino...
U didn't get me sorry.
Is surrogacy.... To. Get. The son.
Then you can date the woman.
U keep. The child.
Ok... hold on... does she think I am dating her? Or is she doing a job?
U never register with her... So. U never have law in between.
@Tommy WizOh OMG brk.. Sorry.
It's my fault for. Not being clear sorry.
Sounds like a contract.
No bro.
When you say Surrogacy I'm thinking it's a legally binding business contract.
No. Bro.... Please let. Me exain.... Lol.
Part 1 is make the son.
Then u get birth order to get your sons certificate.
Then part 2... U can date a woman or whatever.
Where she has to eat what she is told and do what she is told for 9 months. I don't stick my dick in her.... we do the jerk off + turkey baster.
If Shes OK, u just continue dating her.
No bro... The son is yours.
U don't need to have sex with the gf.
Part 1 is where we're stuck. How do you get the kid *without* her parental rights? Are we talking about a machine womb?
Or whatever... U already had a son through the surrogacy right.
Ok... so how is this plan different than me just going to Ukrane, dating a bitch.... knocking her up and then taking off with the kid later?
Or artificial insemination?
@Terminarch it's through commercial surrogacy.
The fucking turkey baster.
In Ukraine, where 80% of surrogacy is done...
U become the sole legal parent.
On your sons certificate u only have the father.
That's brilliant because there can never ever be any claim. To. Support later.
The surrogate waives her right to. Any claim through the surrogacy provider.
Then u bring u son as step 1 of your family right.
What is this bacon here?
Then u just say story....
Oh, I'm a single dad....
My wife passed way blah blah blah...
Then u can date whatever.
Who am I telling this story to and why?
She never legally marries u.
@Tommy WizOh huh?
Do. U see what I mean now. Bro?
This let's. U raise your son.... She never gets any alimony...
There's never any divorce...
And u can never have ur child taken away. Parent rights maintained.
@Happy Humble Hermit bro can u please weigh in on this dynamic?
When you say surrogacy here... it's a business contract. She doesn't think you like her, you aren't sticking your dick in her. They take a sperm and egg and then mix and put it in her. There is no sex. That is surrogacy. Maybe that is where we are getting confused here.
Okay, I'm following you. You have your kid, you're the only legal parent, etc. But if you want to live in a western country you'd better not bring another woman into the picture.
That kid are you money is gone.
@Tommy WizOh no its done through the surrogacy provider all that's handled bro.
So MGTOW is sole parent, in twenty years or so you might have a MGTOW generation. Only a small percentage can afford to do this. Meanwhile population doubles to 18 billlion through regular channels. Is this a win?
@Flushtater wait.
@Terminarch wait why not?
I'm with Bob. Why not just adopt 12 kids than?
U just never marry.... U can date.
Way faster.
U never marry... But u have a child.
It's alwlmost like we shortcutted to allowing men to have their own sons.
@Tommy WizOh There is something to be said for genetic legacy, whatever that's worth.
Without women participating.
So that way women can do nothing aboit this...
As. Mgtows we maintain generations of strong independent self. Reliant and strong non pussified men.
The courts can do something about it.
Who only get stronger with each generation... Women are furious but can do nothjng.
@Terminarch do what?
It's your legal sole guardian.
Memetics make mgtow not genetics. I get most care about that... but I don't.
Please guys challenge the idea.
And I'm with Frodo on the not wanting to make more suffering.
I want ur challenge why it wing work and help mgtow.
@Tommy WizOh more suffering.... But like. I said u can have ur cake and eat. It too.
It can work for some men that want that. Sure. Like 0.000001% of all mgtow.
@Tommy WizOh why only small?
How much does this cost?
How many mgtow want children and don't already have them?
U think $20k for surrogacy is not way way cheaper than giving away half ur shit and spending $50k in a 3yr divorce?
The kid costs more than $20k in time.
Bro... It's many Times. Cheaper than agony of life wrecking divorce, losing ur kids anyways, and losing half ur net worth.
Yeah but it's ur kids.
That is true.
U can have. Just 1 son.
And women won't have any claim
If you want a kid, that is probably the best way to go.
No child. Support.. It'd. Ur child.
No alimony, u never married her.
Fair enough. But not many want this.
She will always be on her best behavior. Because otherawise she knows she's exkensdabem.
@Tommy WizOh why not?
I want. To make this more affordable for men who want a family, but don't like the direction feminist is going to wreck their lives.
I'm all for you having this option and maybe it'd even work. But most MGTOW wouldn't take the risk.
I don't want to have a kid, if I were to raise a boy to be a good man going his own way, I would just find one that has already been discarded and make him whole.
Sort of like a viable alternative. To family engineering in the age of mgtow.
@Tommy WizOh but u can haeb truly your son.
It's really continuation of you. 100% natural.
Ur heritage and legacy.
I don't see it that way. The young man is his own person. I'm only there to guide him.
@Tommy WizOh but it's good. To have your son... I thiught mgtow we opt out because women are cheaters...
We lose child custody 99% of. Divorce.
We have. To pay alimony.
Heritage doesn't matter that much to me. If it did I would be taking over Transylvania right now ... taking back my home lands with force. DNA is meaningless to me personally.
Think aboit the 2M annual. Marriages.
See, you keep coming back to the woman. "On her best behavior" isn't good enough.
It could all be safer for 10Ms of. Guys.
@Terminarch why not? U can do easily throw her away any second u want.
It's. Ur house.
Ur child.
If you live in the fucking desert.
U have zero obligations to support her.
It's a dream freedom, isn't it?
You cannot make the process cheaper by much. There are too many parties involved. The governement wants a cut, the company wants a cut, the woman wants a cut. It must lead to cutting the woman out of the loop entirely. Artificial wombs have to be the result.
@Tommy WizOh no no... The gov wants u to marry... But u don't have to.
Are u talking aboit surrogacy?
That's all. Packaged in total price.
Yes you do. If you've ever lived together, supported the child together, or get *accused* of domestic abuse / violence you're fucked.
Ukraine government gets a cut. Trust me. They legislate for this shit, they get paid one way or another.
Just like lcd monitors got cheaper over time... This surrogacy gets. More established... It will become cheaper.... More options emerge to lower the price.
I know what you mean.,.. all in one price. But you cannot bring the price down to 5000
@Tommy WizOh ok but after the $20k that's it.
Excuse my ignorance, I've never understood the whole "Muh family line is precious" thing. Whether evolution or divine creation, we all come from the same original couple.
It's. Your son bro.
@Flushtater Respectfully disagree.
No alimony, no divorce, your son, your family, no headache, your family.
At times the human population has been reduced to fifty individuals. We're all related.
You keep custody.
@Flushtater That's better.
@Flushtater what u think bro?
Doesn't anyone see the utility of this solution?
The woman gets a big cut. She isn't going to wreck her body for nothing. The cheaper you pay the less quality you will get. You want extra healthy womb, you pay extra money. That's the free market. It has to be technological and replicatable on a large scale to be truly viable.
I just don't see what's so great about being a breeeder versus say an adopter.
Most. Mgtow talks abiut the problem and exposing it... Which is great....
But. I'm try to offer a really viable solution
An alternative to millions of. Guys who want a family but don't wanna get destroyed by marriage enslavement. Child support. Misery.
It won't be anymore than 12.5% your dna in a couple generations, it's meaningless.
@metan It's viable for very few MGTOW. How many guys do you know who can drop everything and go to another country?
@metan surrogacy is fine, but it's a drop in the endles sea of humans, I don't see how it would change anything.
@Tommy WizOh well with the in vitro baby bags coming out with the womb will be very healthy and cheaper too.
It's a good idea. Because it's available TODAY.... problem is small market, super expensive etc.
Guys, I'll work with partners to setup a really good. Lab for this.
We can totally wipe our and marginalize women.
Fight against gynkcentric society.
To justify the price you need to be doing genetic engineering.
Something about this screams denial.
And use our brains and engineering to destroy them.
"Bargaining," specifically.
Because after all we built this worpd for them. To. Enjoy with us.
We can easily use. Our wit to take. Back full control.
@Terminarch no bro... This. Is a zero compromise option only favoring men.
What's denial brk?
We can have our cake and eat it too.
Everyone of. Is guys can be happy and have our family.
I think it's a step in the right direction, but adoption is better. That way you are saving a young man that is suffering right now. That's better than making new people... fixing the ones we have now.
Bargaining is a reference to the 5 stages of grief. Like if you lost a loved one.
OK let me. Put it this way....
What if tomorrow there was a medical breakthrough that allowed men to have babies.
Do. U think mgtows wouldn't want families or. Many would?
Have babies without women.
@Tommy WizOh hate to break. It to. U... But adoption agencies 99.9% of. Time only let foster. Parent married adopt... And single women... Rarely ever. Males.... I checked. Its part of. Their lock down strategy... And. They think it wouod be creepy.
That is the key.... without women. Super important detail. They are the gate keepers. If we are renting a womb, they will set the price. More men do it the higher the price will be. That's terrible for long term.... you want the more men do it the cheaper it is.
If single woman cannot have her own child, or a married couple are. Unable to conceive.
But never to a single male. That's virtually unheard of.
I know... that is the problem. It's on lockdown.
Why they lock that down but not this? Why does this loop hole exist?
@Tommy WizOh bro I. Is it said the price will drop. Over. Time... And later we will. Have baby bag in lab to make. The embryo and bring it to. Term.
It exists because it serves women's purposes.
Exactly... she is getting paid.
@Tommy WizOh because I invented this stratefy bro
The more it is done... the more they get out of it the more they will want. Price can only go up.
And I want fellow. Mgtows to discuss with me as a. Viable option.
@Tommy WizOh not necessarily... Why u worrying about economics... It's way cheaper than divorce and losing 10yrs of suffering. Alimioy etc.
U don't need. To. Pay forwedding.
Avg wedding cost is. Make. Than cost of this surrogacy.
20k USD in Ukraine goes a fucking long way man. That's a fucking lot for them, it will only go up from there. Look at the hyper inflated value of pussy.... the womb price will work the same way.
This way u can just go get your son.. And then datr a woman... It's cheaper than useless wedding lol.
If that's your path then take it. You don't need our permission. But I'm telling you now that most MGTOW will not do this.
U guys don't agree. It's a worthy alternative to current REKT gynocentric feminazi psycho system the worlf is quickly morphing into?
The plan is fine... it's just not scale-able.
^
Marginalizing men to be slaves, cucks,. And more.
Say it's all good... and then 100,000 mgtow all want a kid this year.... how many women are going to do this for 20k?
It's still centered around a fucking gyno though..that is the problem. Remove the woman from the equation and we have a deal.
Paying through the nose indenturee servitude to. Women for alimony, child support, and rediculous divorce fees, threat of going to jail for that too.
Every man that does this increases the price because the available services (ie available women) become rarer.
@Tommy WizOh therr is over supply of surrogates not a problrm.
OMG.
Why are you concerned with price climbing in future.... There will be more. Options and companies competing for business's.
And I said baby bag factories will reduce cost because the demand will. Justify that accelerated innovation.
U putting the cart ahead. Of the horse bro
Aside from. Ur perceived price issue.... Which is way cheaper than cost. Of weddding....
I don't have to marry to have a kid anyway.
The price will go up. You don't want to rent a used womb that's popped out 6 kids already. You want healthy womb, Look right now it's on sale.... not many people are doing it.... like when you get a phone plan... $20 a month for 3 months... then once it's being used all of the sudden you get your real bill is $200.
Do. U think it's a good alternative. For the 2M annually today getting married. And wrecking their lives?
If you are marring to have a son. Yes this is much better.
@Tommy WizOh hey Bro... Why else. Do people get. Married... It's. To have children and a family.
And I can see how it would contribute to acceleration of the tech development ok. Yeah. if demand sky rockets.
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