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2018-08-16 09:21:06 UTC

First... U get surrogacy in Ukraine... You are sole intended parent.... Second....

2018-08-16 09:21:35 UTC

Ok... with ya so far.

2018-08-16 09:21:39 UTC

U can have a private 'marriage' so never pay child support and never have alimony.

2018-08-16 09:21:49 UTC

You have your son... No daughters

2018-08-16 09:21:50 UTC

Stop you there.

2018-08-16 09:21:57 UTC

OK.

2018-08-16 09:22:10 UTC

You are the sole legal parent. The father.

2018-08-16 09:22:31 UTC

You embed strong male principals to your own son.

2018-08-16 09:22:38 UTC

So... become Ukranian, sloppily abort daughters... ok... Not seeing the mgtow angle just yet.

2018-08-16 09:22:45 UTC

No no...

2018-08-16 09:22:47 UTC

"Private" or not you're tying your life to another person.

2018-08-16 09:23:00 UTC

It's because they have strong commercial surrogacy laws

2018-08-16 09:23:14 UTC

To let you be deemed sole intended parent on birth certificate.

2018-08-16 09:23:24 UTC

@Terminarch nope 100% not true....

2018-08-16 09:23:26 UTC

Will you be the primary caregiver?

2018-08-16 09:23:27 UTC

Whats your Point? you Want a Son With No Strings attached ??

2018-08-16 09:23:44 UTC

@ZODD yeah this way u can have a family..

2018-08-16 09:23:51 UTC

And keep ur freedom.

2018-08-16 09:23:57 UTC

Have ur cake and eat it too.

2018-08-16 09:24:00 UTC

By Family you Mean , YOU and a Son.

2018-08-16 09:24:01 UTC

Then get the kid and don't get married.

2018-08-16 09:24:04 UTC

U stay as apex. Male.

2018-08-16 09:24:08 UTC

Sure man , Go for it

2018-08-16 09:24:20 UTC

Wait... What's wrong bro?

2018-08-16 09:24:26 UTC

You might As Well Fucking Clone yourself at that point then. LMFAO

2018-08-16 09:24:46 UTC

@Happy Humble Hermit what u think bro?

2018-08-16 09:24:51 UTC

I support cloning. Cool.

2018-08-16 09:24:54 UTC

@ZODD hey wait a sec bro.

2018-08-16 09:25:04 UTC

It's with surrogate not a clone tho.

2018-08-16 09:25:08 UTC

Whats up?

2018-08-16 09:25:22 UTC

U can pick eye color, gender, and hair color now.

2018-08-16 09:25:24 UTC

Zodd... I think he likes you.

2018-08-16 09:25:37 UTC

Guys. This is a breakthrough convent.

2018-08-16 09:25:40 UTC

Ok, now I'm a little interested.

2018-08-16 09:25:46 UTC

Women will be angry as fuck.

2018-08-16 09:25:47 UTC

Yeah, But you Don't want anything to do with that bitch, So Why even Want her Genetics ??

2018-08-16 09:25:50 UTC

What labs are doing this work? Or how do you know of it?

2018-08-16 09:25:58 UTC

No no no guys... Please.

2018-08-16 09:26:09 UTC

I want this to. Work.... For. Future mgtow.

2018-08-16 09:26:17 UTC

We can restore masculine men

2018-08-16 09:26:40 UTC

Or. Grow up with pussy ass bitches that brainwash single households

2018-08-16 09:26:49 UTC

Look, you had me up until you said marriage. What does any of this have to do with a woman?

2018-08-16 09:27:02 UTC

Where they scapegoated all the good fathers out there through our bs divorce system.

2018-08-16 09:27:03 UTC

Welll... so far it's all good. A viable alternative to artifical wombs to tie us over until we can get the post wallers and the trannys to get the tech off the ground. Seems reasonable in theory so far, honestly.

2018-08-16 09:27:11 UTC

@Terminarch it's not a real. Marriage.

2018-08-16 09:27:24 UTC

It's just like a long date. No registration.

2018-08-16 09:27:34 UTC

Brk... U can throw her away any second.

2018-08-16 09:27:35 UTC

...

2018-08-16 09:27:56 UTC

Because she knows she is always can be ghosted

2018-08-16 09:28:05 UTC

And only as good as her last show.

2018-08-16 09:28:12 UTC

No entitlements.

2018-08-16 09:28:13 UTC

@metan How Old are you?

2018-08-16 09:28:15 UTC

Ok... doesnt' matter about the woman, she is on contract right? So she is an object a biological artifical womb. Ok... then what?

2018-08-16 09:28:22 UTC

30, why.

2018-08-16 09:28:33 UTC

I wanna make good solutions here brk.

2018-08-16 09:28:55 UTC

OK. So go to another country, surrogate, ditch the bitch.

2018-08-16 09:29:01 UTC

You aren't fucking dating here... or fucking her. Its all done in a lab... right? That is what we are talking about here?

2018-08-16 09:29:11 UTC

@Tommy WizOh no. Ino...

2018-08-16 09:29:17 UTC

U didn't get me sorry.

2018-08-16 09:29:29 UTC

Is surrogacy.... To. Get. The son.

2018-08-16 09:29:43 UTC

Then you can date the woman.

2018-08-16 09:29:52 UTC

U keep. The child.

2018-08-16 09:30:02 UTC

Ok... hold on... does she think I am dating her? Or is she doing a job?

2018-08-16 09:30:06 UTC

U never register with her... So. U never have law in between.

2018-08-16 09:30:14 UTC

@Tommy WizOh OMG brk.. Sorry.

2018-08-16 09:30:27 UTC

It's my fault for. Not being clear sorry.

2018-08-16 09:30:31 UTC

Sounds like a contract.

2018-08-16 09:30:36 UTC

No bro.

2018-08-16 09:30:41 UTC

When you say Surrogacy I'm thinking it's a legally binding business contract.

2018-08-16 09:30:53 UTC

No. Bro.... Please let. Me exain.... Lol.

2018-08-16 09:31:03 UTC

Part 1 is make the son.

2018-08-16 09:31:20 UTC

Then u get birth order to get your sons certificate.

2018-08-16 09:31:31 UTC

Then part 2... U can date a woman or whatever.

2018-08-16 09:31:37 UTC

Where she has to eat what she is told and do what she is told for 9 months. I don't stick my dick in her.... we do the jerk off + turkey baster.

2018-08-16 09:31:43 UTC

If Shes OK, u just continue dating her.

2018-08-16 09:32:03 UTC

No bro... The son is yours.

2018-08-16 09:32:11 UTC

U don't need to have sex with the gf.

2018-08-16 09:32:25 UTC

Part 1 is where we're stuck. How do you get the kid *without* her parental rights? Are we talking about a machine womb?

2018-08-16 09:32:27 UTC

Or whatever... U already had a son through the surrogacy right.

2018-08-16 09:32:29 UTC

Ok... so how is this plan different than me just going to Ukrane, dating a bitch.... knocking her up and then taking off with the kid later?

2018-08-16 09:32:34 UTC

Or artificial insemination?

2018-08-16 09:32:39 UTC

@Terminarch it's through commercial surrogacy.

2018-08-16 09:32:44 UTC

The fucking turkey baster.

2018-08-16 09:32:55 UTC

In Ukraine, where 80% of surrogacy is done...

2018-08-16 09:33:04 UTC

U become the sole legal parent.

2018-08-16 09:33:17 UTC

On your sons certificate u only have the father.

2018-08-16 09:33:31 UTC

That's brilliant because there can never ever be any claim. To. Support later.

2018-08-16 09:33:46 UTC

The surrogate waives her right to. Any claim through the surrogacy provider.

2018-08-16 09:34:04 UTC

Then u bring u son as step 1 of your family right.

2018-08-16 09:34:10 UTC

What is this bacon here?

2018-08-16 09:34:14 UTC

Then u just say story....

2018-08-16 09:34:20 UTC

Oh, I'm a single dad....

2018-08-16 09:34:27 UTC

My wife passed way blah blah blah...

2018-08-16 09:34:34 UTC

Then u can date whatever.

2018-08-16 09:34:41 UTC

Who am I telling this story to and why?

2018-08-16 09:34:43 UTC

She never legally marries u.

2018-08-16 09:34:49 UTC
2018-08-16 09:34:57 UTC

Do. U see what I mean now. Bro?

2018-08-16 09:35:11 UTC

This let's. U raise your son.... She never gets any alimony...

2018-08-16 09:35:17 UTC

There's never any divorce...

2018-08-16 09:35:29 UTC

And u can never have ur child taken away. Parent rights maintained.

2018-08-16 09:36:03 UTC

@Happy Humble Hermit bro can u please weigh in on this dynamic?

2018-08-16 09:36:09 UTC

When you say surrogacy here... it's a business contract. She doesn't think you like her, you aren't sticking your dick in her. They take a sperm and egg and then mix and put it in her. There is no sex. That is surrogacy. Maybe that is where we are getting confused here.

2018-08-16 09:36:21 UTC

Okay, I'm following you. You have your kid, you're the only legal parent, etc. But if you want to live in a western country you'd better not bring another woman into the picture.

2018-08-16 09:36:31 UTC

That kid are you money is gone.

2018-08-16 09:36:39 UTC

@Tommy WizOh no its done through the surrogacy provider all that's handled bro.

2018-08-16 09:36:45 UTC

So MGTOW is sole parent, in twenty years or so you might have a MGTOW generation. Only a small percentage can afford to do this. Meanwhile population doubles to 18 billlion through regular channels. Is this a win?

2018-08-16 09:37:01 UTC
2018-08-16 09:37:13 UTC

@Terminarch wait why not?

2018-08-16 09:37:19 UTC

I'm with Bob. Why not just adopt 12 kids than?

2018-08-16 09:37:21 UTC

U just never marry.... U can date.

2018-08-16 09:37:26 UTC

Way faster.

2018-08-16 09:37:30 UTC

U never marry... But u have a child.

2018-08-16 09:37:51 UTC

It's alwlmost like we shortcutted to allowing men to have their own sons.

2018-08-16 09:37:55 UTC

@Tommy WizOh There is something to be said for genetic legacy, whatever that's worth.

2018-08-16 09:37:58 UTC

Without women participating.

2018-08-16 09:38:12 UTC

So that way women can do nothing aboit this...

2018-08-16 09:38:33 UTC

As. Mgtows we maintain generations of strong independent self. Reliant and strong non pussified men.

2018-08-16 09:38:43 UTC

The courts can do something about it.

2018-08-16 09:38:59 UTC

Who only get stronger with each generation... Women are furious but can do nothjng.

2018-08-16 09:39:06 UTC

@Terminarch do what?

2018-08-16 09:39:20 UTC

It's your legal sole guardian.

2018-08-16 09:39:21 UTC

Memetics make mgtow not genetics. I get most care about that... but I don't.

2018-08-16 09:39:35 UTC

Please guys challenge the idea.

2018-08-16 09:39:43 UTC

And I'm with Frodo on the not wanting to make more suffering.

2018-08-16 09:39:49 UTC

I want ur challenge why it wing work and help mgtow.

2018-08-16 09:40:09 UTC

@Tommy WizOh more suffering.... But like. I said u can have ur cake and eat. It too.

2018-08-16 09:40:15 UTC

It can work for some men that want that. Sure. Like 0.000001% of all mgtow.

2018-08-16 09:40:25 UTC

@Tommy WizOh why only small?

2018-08-16 09:40:31 UTC

How much does this cost?

2018-08-16 09:40:44 UTC

How many mgtow want children and don't already have them?

2018-08-16 09:40:49 UTC

U think $20k for surrogacy is not way way cheaper than giving away half ur shit and spending $50k in a 3yr divorce?

2018-08-16 09:41:07 UTC

The kid costs more than $20k in time.

2018-08-16 09:41:22 UTC

Bro... It's many Times. Cheaper than agony of life wrecking divorce, losing ur kids anyways, and losing half ur net worth.

2018-08-16 09:41:29 UTC

Yeah but it's ur kids.

2018-08-16 09:41:36 UTC

That is true.

2018-08-16 09:41:37 UTC

U can have. Just 1 son.

2018-08-16 09:41:46 UTC

And women won't have any claim

2018-08-16 09:41:53 UTC

If you want a kid, that is probably the best way to go.

2018-08-16 09:41:54 UTC

No child. Support.. It'd. Ur child.

2018-08-16 09:42:00 UTC

No alimony, u never married her.

2018-08-16 09:42:17 UTC

Fair enough. But not many want this.

2018-08-16 09:42:20 UTC

She will always be on her best behavior. Because otherawise she knows she's exkensdabem.

2018-08-16 09:42:28 UTC

@Tommy WizOh why not?

2018-08-16 09:42:53 UTC

I want. To make this more affordable for men who want a family, but don't like the direction feminist is going to wreck their lives.

2018-08-16 09:42:55 UTC

I'm all for you having this option and maybe it'd even work. But most MGTOW wouldn't take the risk.

2018-08-16 09:43:04 UTC

I don't want to have a kid, if I were to raise a boy to be a good man going his own way, I would just find one that has already been discarded and make him whole.

2018-08-16 09:43:07 UTC

Sort of like a viable alternative. To family engineering in the age of mgtow.

2018-08-16 09:43:22 UTC

@Tommy WizOh but u can haeb truly your son.

2018-08-16 09:43:38 UTC

It's really continuation of you. 100% natural.

2018-08-16 09:43:44 UTC

Ur heritage and legacy.

2018-08-16 09:43:49 UTC

I don't see it that way. The young man is his own person. I'm only there to guide him.

2018-08-16 09:44:18 UTC

@Tommy WizOh but it's good. To have your son... I thiught mgtow we opt out because women are cheaters...

2018-08-16 09:44:33 UTC

We lose child custody 99% of. Divorce.

2018-08-16 09:44:39 UTC

We have. To pay alimony.

2018-08-16 09:44:43 UTC

Heritage doesn't matter that much to me. If it did I would be taking over Transylvania right now ... taking back my home lands with force. DNA is meaningless to me personally.

2018-08-16 09:44:50 UTC

Think aboit the 2M annual. Marriages.

2018-08-16 09:44:58 UTC

See, you keep coming back to the woman. "On her best behavior" isn't good enough.

2018-08-16 09:45:00 UTC

It could all be safer for 10Ms of. Guys.

2018-08-16 09:45:21 UTC

@Terminarch why not? U can do easily throw her away any second u want.

2018-08-16 09:45:23 UTC

It's. Ur house.

2018-08-16 09:45:26 UTC

Ur child.

2018-08-16 09:45:34 UTC

If you live in the fucking desert.

2018-08-16 09:45:43 UTC

U have zero obligations to support her.

2018-08-16 09:45:56 UTC

It's a dream freedom, isn't it?

2018-08-16 09:45:57 UTC

You cannot make the process cheaper by much. There are too many parties involved. The governement wants a cut, the company wants a cut, the woman wants a cut. It must lead to cutting the woman out of the loop entirely. Artificial wombs have to be the result.

2018-08-16 09:46:17 UTC

@Tommy WizOh no no... The gov wants u to marry... But u don't have to.

2018-08-16 09:46:28 UTC

Are u talking aboit surrogacy?

2018-08-16 09:46:34 UTC

That's all. Packaged in total price.

2018-08-16 09:46:54 UTC

Yes you do. If you've ever lived together, supported the child together, or get *accused* of domestic abuse / violence you're fucked.

2018-08-16 09:46:54 UTC

Ukraine government gets a cut. Trust me. They legislate for this shit, they get paid one way or another.

2018-08-16 09:47:13 UTC

Just like lcd monitors got cheaper over time... This surrogacy gets. More established... It will become cheaper.... More options emerge to lower the price.

2018-08-16 09:47:24 UTC

I know what you mean.,.. all in one price. But you cannot bring the price down to 5000

2018-08-16 09:47:27 UTC

@Tommy WizOh ok but after the $20k that's it.

2018-08-16 09:47:28 UTC

Excuse my ignorance, I've never understood the whole "Muh family line is precious" thing. Whether evolution or divine creation, we all come from the same original couple.

2018-08-16 09:47:32 UTC

It's. Your son bro.

2018-08-16 09:47:52 UTC

@Flushtater Respectfully disagree.

2018-08-16 09:47:58 UTC

No alimony, no divorce, your son, your family, no headache, your family.

2018-08-16 09:48:04 UTC

At times the human population has been reduced to fifty individuals. We're all related.

2018-08-16 09:48:09 UTC

You keep custody.

2018-08-16 09:48:19 UTC

@Flushtater That's better.

2018-08-16 09:48:21 UTC

@Flushtater what u think bro?

2018-08-16 09:48:37 UTC

Doesn't anyone see the utility of this solution?

2018-08-16 09:48:48 UTC

The woman gets a big cut. She isn't going to wreck her body for nothing. The cheaper you pay the less quality you will get. You want extra healthy womb, you pay extra money. That's the free market. It has to be technological and replicatable on a large scale to be truly viable.

2018-08-16 09:48:52 UTC

I just don't see what's so great about being a breeeder versus say an adopter.

2018-08-16 09:48:53 UTC

Most. Mgtow talks abiut the problem and exposing it... Which is great....

2018-08-16 09:49:03 UTC

But. I'm try to offer a really viable solution

2018-08-16 09:49:30 UTC

An alternative to millions of. Guys who want a family but don't wanna get destroyed by marriage enslavement. Child support. Misery.

2018-08-16 09:49:40 UTC

It won't be anymore than 12.5% your dna in a couple generations, it's meaningless.

2018-08-16 09:49:44 UTC

@metan It's viable for very few MGTOW. How many guys do you know who can drop everything and go to another country?

2018-08-16 09:49:48 UTC

@metan surrogacy is fine, but it's a drop in the endles sea of humans, I don't see how it would change anything.

2018-08-16 09:50:07 UTC

@Tommy WizOh well with the in vitro baby bags coming out with the womb will be very healthy and cheaper too.

2018-08-16 09:50:19 UTC

It's a good idea. Because it's available TODAY.... problem is small market, super expensive etc.

2018-08-16 09:50:24 UTC

Guys, I'll work with partners to setup a really good. Lab for this.

2018-08-16 09:50:34 UTC

We can totally wipe our and marginalize women.

2018-08-16 09:50:44 UTC

Fight against gynkcentric society.

2018-08-16 09:50:47 UTC

To justify the price you need to be doing genetic engineering.

2018-08-16 09:50:51 UTC

Something about this screams denial.

2018-08-16 09:50:52 UTC

And use our brains and engineering to destroy them.

2018-08-16 09:51:04 UTC

"Bargaining," specifically.

2018-08-16 09:51:07 UTC

Because after all we built this worpd for them. To. Enjoy with us.

2018-08-16 09:51:21 UTC

We can easily use. Our wit to take. Back full control.

2018-08-16 09:51:37 UTC

@Terminarch no bro... This. Is a zero compromise option only favoring men.

2018-08-16 09:51:48 UTC

What's denial brk?

2018-08-16 09:51:58 UTC

We can have our cake and eat it too.

2018-08-16 09:52:14 UTC

Everyone of. Is guys can be happy and have our family.

2018-08-16 09:52:15 UTC

I think it's a step in the right direction, but adoption is better. That way you are saving a young man that is suffering right now. That's better than making new people... fixing the ones we have now.

2018-08-16 09:52:18 UTC

Bargaining is a reference to the 5 stages of grief. Like if you lost a loved one.

2018-08-16 09:52:20 UTC

OK let me. Put it this way....

2018-08-16 09:52:35 UTC

What if tomorrow there was a medical breakthrough that allowed men to have babies.

2018-08-16 09:52:48 UTC

Do. U think mgtows wouldn't want families or. Many would?

2018-08-16 09:53:00 UTC

Have babies without women.

2018-08-16 09:53:48 UTC

@Tommy WizOh hate to break. It to. U... But adoption agencies 99.9% of. Time only let foster. Parent married adopt... And single women... Rarely ever. Males.... I checked. Its part of. Their lock down strategy... And. They think it wouod be creepy.

2018-08-16 09:54:04 UTC

That is the key.... without women. Super important detail. They are the gate keepers. If we are renting a womb, they will set the price. More men do it the higher the price will be. That's terrible for long term.... you want the more men do it the cheaper it is.

2018-08-16 09:54:13 UTC

If single woman cannot have her own child, or a married couple are. Unable to conceive.

2018-08-16 09:54:25 UTC

But never to a single male. That's virtually unheard of.

2018-08-16 09:54:29 UTC

I know... that is the problem. It's on lockdown.

2018-08-16 09:54:46 UTC

Why they lock that down but not this? Why does this loop hole exist?

2018-08-16 09:55:10 UTC

@Tommy WizOh bro I. Is it said the price will drop. Over. Time... And later we will. Have baby bag in lab to make. The embryo and bring it to. Term.

2018-08-16 09:55:14 UTC

It exists because it serves women's purposes.

2018-08-16 09:55:24 UTC

Exactly... she is getting paid.

2018-08-16 09:55:31 UTC

@Tommy WizOh because I invented this stratefy bro

2018-08-16 09:55:44 UTC

The more it is done... the more they get out of it the more they will want. Price can only go up.

2018-08-16 09:55:45 UTC

And I want fellow. Mgtows to discuss with me as a. Viable option.

2018-08-16 09:56:23 UTC

@Tommy WizOh not necessarily... Why u worrying about economics... It's way cheaper than divorce and losing 10yrs of suffering. Alimioy etc.

2018-08-16 09:56:35 UTC

U don't need. To. Pay forwedding.

2018-08-16 09:56:46 UTC

Avg wedding cost is. Make. Than cost of this surrogacy.

2018-08-16 09:57:04 UTC

20k USD in Ukraine goes a fucking long way man. That's a fucking lot for them, it will only go up from there. Look at the hyper inflated value of pussy.... the womb price will work the same way.

2018-08-16 09:57:08 UTC

This way u can just go get your son.. And then datr a woman... It's cheaper than useless wedding lol.

2018-08-16 09:57:15 UTC

If that's your path then take it. You don't need our permission. But I'm telling you now that most MGTOW will not do this.

2018-08-16 09:58:08 UTC

U guys don't agree. It's a worthy alternative to current REKT gynocentric feminazi psycho system the worlf is quickly morphing into?

2018-08-16 09:58:08 UTC

The plan is fine... it's just not scale-able.

2018-08-16 09:58:19 UTC

^

2018-08-16 09:58:24 UTC

Marginalizing men to be slaves, cucks,. And more.

2018-08-16 09:58:35 UTC

Say it's all good... and then 100,000 mgtow all want a kid this year.... how many women are going to do this for 20k?

2018-08-16 09:59:16 UTC

It's still centered around a fucking gyno though..that is the problem. Remove the woman from the equation and we have a deal.

2018-08-16 09:59:19 UTC

Paying through the nose indenturee servitude to. Women for alimony, child support, and rediculous divorce fees, threat of going to jail for that too.

2018-08-16 09:59:39 UTC

Every man that does this increases the price because the available services (ie available women) become rarer.

2018-08-16 09:59:46 UTC

@Tommy WizOh therr is over supply of surrogates not a problrm.

2018-08-16 09:59:52 UTC

OMG.

2018-08-16 10:00:14 UTC

Why are you concerned with price climbing in future.... There will be more. Options and companies competing for business's.

2018-08-16 10:00:31 UTC

And I said baby bag factories will reduce cost because the demand will. Justify that accelerated innovation.

2018-08-16 10:00:45 UTC

U putting the cart ahead. Of the horse bro

2018-08-16 10:01:12 UTC

Aside from. Ur perceived price issue.... Which is way cheaper than cost. Of weddding....

2018-08-16 10:01:28 UTC

I don't have to marry to have a kid anyway.

2018-08-16 10:01:28 UTC

The price will go up. You don't want to rent a used womb that's popped out 6 kids already. You want healthy womb, Look right now it's on sale.... not many people are doing it.... like when you get a phone plan... $20 a month for 3 months... then once it's being used all of the sudden you get your real bill is $200.

2018-08-16 10:01:48 UTC

Do. U think it's a good alternative. For the 2M annually today getting married. And wrecking their lives?

2018-08-16 10:02:08 UTC

If you are marring to have a son. Yes this is much better.

2018-08-16 10:02:35 UTC

@Tommy WizOh hey Bro... Why else. Do people get. Married... It's. To have children and a family.

2018-08-16 10:02:36 UTC

And I can see how it would contribute to acceleration of the tech development ok. Yeah. if demand sky rockets.

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